AHC: Make A Minor Navy Larger/More Effective Prior To WW2

Maybe India, if the British decide to form the RIN earlier and delegate more responsibility to the Indians to man the Singapore base.
 
The biggest reason is probably that, because of the brutal budget cuts of the 1930s, interservice rivalry in the Netherlands was like Japan but without the murders. There was no attempt to build a joint, balanced strategy for Army, Navy and Air Service, because noone wanted to share the limited resources with the others. To give an example, an former admiral who supported expanding the bomber force was publicly called a traitor to the country by his former colleagues.

When the Naval Air Service was capable of doing the recon for the submarine arm, the light cruisers were redundant. To save them a case was made that they could defend the DEI just by existing. To do this, Dutch naval thinkers embraced the thinking of German admiral Tripitz. Basically the idea was that all the capital ships of the IJN would have to be fighting the capital ships of the RN and the USN. Because of this light cruisers would be enough. Of course it was poppy cock but it saved the cruisers. It only became a problem in 1940 when the cruiser-doctrine had totally taken over Dutch naval thinking and reached the DEI with Helfrich. That was the moment when the submarine was relegated to second or third position. It was also the moment that the Dutch government decided to buy mediocre battlecruisers. Made in Germany, can you figure that? The change in Dutch naval thinking also in part explains the suicide runs of the Combined Strike Force. Helfrich had spent his career convincing everyone that light cruisers were enough to do the job.

EDIT: There is a bit more to this but I'm on my mobile right now. This is the main thing though :)
In the early 20’s the Dutch were just one vote away from having a navy double the size it had by 1940.
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
In the early 20’s the Dutch were just one vote away from having a navy double the size it had by 1940.

Well yes, the defeat of the Vlootwet (fleetlaw) did not help, especially as it would have cemented the role of the submarine. Given the state of Dutch (and just as importantly DEI) finances I do have my doubts about how much of that fleet would have been left by 1940.
 
Such as one from Adelaide to Darwin via Alice Springs?
Someone has to build the last half. But the Ghan is a candidate. Particularly in WWII the US diesels were prioritized for their arid routes because of water concerns. Australia has a lot of lines that go through arid locations. This can be used as an excuse to boot strap an industry building and supporting large diesels and electric motors. Something Australia lacked which would be very handy for building submarines and escorts *wink wink*. The intention is to do this in the late 20s as diesel locomotives become a thing but the basic principle holds.
 
articularly in WWII the US diesels were prioritized for their arid routes because of water concerns

But also for railbed and track weight concerns
A 4-8-4 Northern Steamer weighed 800,000 pounds with the Tender, and had a tractive effort of 65,000 pounds.
an Alco RSD-1 diesel weighed 250,000 pounds, but had a tractive effort of 40,000 pounds, so could be run on much lighter rails that would not support constant traffic from the big Northern, the rails and roadbed would be pounded into disability in short order. When more power was needed, it was a snap to do a multiple Unit consist, twice the power, but still easy on the rails

Not needing Water was a bonus.
Soviets loved their L-L examples so much, they copied and then kept building them decades after Alco discontinued them
 
But also for railbed and track weight concerns
A 4-8-4 Northern Steamer weighed 800,000 pounds with the Tender, and had a tractive effort of 65,000 pounds.
an Alco RSD-1 diesel weighed 250,000 pounds, but had a tractive effort of 40,000 pounds, so could be run on much lighter rails that would not support constant traffic from the big Northern, the rails and roadbed would be pounded into disability in short order. When more power was needed, it was a snap to do a multiple Unit consist, twice the power, but still easy on the rails

Not needing Water was a bonus.
Soviets loved their L-L examples so much, they copied and then kept building them decades after Alco discontinued them
Well there you go. And considering much of rural Australia ran/runs on narrow gauge...
 
Well yes, the defeat of the Vlootwet (fleetlaw) did not help, especially as it would have cemented the role of the submarine. Given the state of Dutch (and just as importantly DEI) finances I do have my doubts about how much of that fleet would have been left by 1940.

If the money is allocated in the early 20s then the fleet gets built throughout the 20s, so by 1940 would only be 10-15 years old. Ships could be laid up during the depression, but they're new so will still be good by 1940.

What was the proposal in terms of ship types and numbers?
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
If the money is allocated in the early 20s then the fleet gets built throughout the 20s, so by 1940 would only be 10-15 years old. Ships could be laid up during the depression, but they're new so will still be good by 1940.

Don't ever underestimate Dutch stupidity with regads to the military budget ;)

What was the proposal in terms of ship types and numbers?

4 light cruisers
24 destroyers
32 submarines
4 submarine minelayers
4 flottieljevaartuigen/ probably gunships or yaghts
7 big minelayers
72 scoutplanes
18 fighters
18 bombers
 
Don't ever underestimate Dutch stupidity with regads to the military budget ;)



4 light cruisers
24 destroyers
32 submarines
4 submarine minelayers
4 flottieljevaartuigen/ probably gunships or yaghts
7 big minelayers
72 scoutplanes
18 fighters
18 bombers

This was to be complete by 1928. It was cut by half and then defeated by one vote. Under this plan the Dutch were to build 12 DD, 7SS, 2SM, 2PG, 2CM

They built little before 1928. What was built: 4DD (1925-28), 4DD (1927-31), 5SS (1930-34) 4SL (1928-32), 2PG (1924-26), 2CM (1930-32). So by having the 12 Admiralen class Destroyers, O-19 milnelayer subs and 7 K XIV class subs by 1928 then they can probably reach the original fleet plan size fleet before 1941.

As an aside, the Dutch had been using Snorkels since before 1918. Scotts Shipbuilding in Greenock Scotland patented a snorkel in 1916.
 
Maybe India, if the British decide to form the RIN earlier and delegate more responsibility to the Indians to man the Singapore base.

How about a Littoral force - minelayers/sweepers and MTBs?

What was India's shipbuilding industry like back then?
 
Not very interesting but Ireland could buy a few destroyers and corvettes.
Couldn't really afford much more without getting rid of the civil war which cost the state twice the entire budget for 1925.
 
I know during the outbreak of World War II the Polish Navy was expanding and modernizing the fleet. If they started just a little earlier or completed things just a little sooner I'd imagine they might have been able to give the Kriegsmarine one hell of a bloody nose. Especially if they went heavy on submarines a Wolf Pack to hunt the Wolf Pack. It would have been interesting if they repurposed some of their more obsolete ships at the time by loading them up with anti-aircraft or flak guns also. Make them seem like easy targets for the Luftwaffe and then unleash hell.
 
How about a Littoral force - minelayers/sweepers and MTBs?

What was India's shipbuilding industry like back then?

AFAIK there wasn't one; none of the RIN's handful of major units (bearing in mind the fleet flagship in 1945 was a frigate) were Indian-built, the first domestic warship was Nilgiri in 1972, which was a Leander-class frigate built in Mumbai. Even the two pre-war fleet minesweepers were built on the Clyde. I guess you'd start off building up MGB/MTB from kits - engine industry is likely to be the limiting factor on domestic production but as in many places already mentioned, a domestic industry building big diesels would be a Very Useful Thing (indeed, a thing the UK didn't have itself until well into the war).
 
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