AHC make a good reincarnation of the KKK in the 20th century.

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Gukpard, Apr 15, 2019.

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  1. Gukpard hominem populist

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    As we know, the KKK had been officially disbanded by Nathan Bedford in 1870 and revived in the early 20th century by a fanboy of the most racist movie ever made, "Birth of a nation". From 1870 until the 1910s the organization barely existed with few small groups trying to cling to the original idea of the white robe and racism, and so I came here with a concept: Could the concept of the KKK be revived in the 20th century as a positive thing?

    For that is completely needed to be the second KKK, because after William Joseph Simmons revived the KKK in 1915 there is NO WAY that organization is going to have a good legacy. The PoD can be the movie not being made, or being made without the KKK on it, and so you have the whole twenty century to organize it. Maybe somewhere on the 1940s a southern progressive identitarian group finds information about the KKK and adopt it's regalia and imagery but at the same way tries to "do it right" and said group fights against racial segregation, what do you think?
     
  2. Theoretical_TJ Well-Known Member

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    This is an interesting hypothetical, but one with some precedent historically. For example, the Amish or Mennonites are some of the most die-hard pacifist groups, but the Anabaptist organizations in the Reformation era were often quite literally Christian ISIS's or burn the world down types.

    I think the best way to do it is to add some Christian reconciliation elements in, a fair degree of anti-planter class rhetoric (they got us in this mess), and arguments that the South was falling behind the rest of the world. A good POD within post-1900 would be some delayed public reaction to Plessy v. Ferguson just after the turn of the century. An analogy could be the relative delay between Roe v. Wade and it becoming a major issue within the Republican Party in the 1970s.

    Economic backwardness relative to the rest of the nation could also be a forward-thinking approach some could take.

    In a way, I could see the Klan being a bit of a Robin Hood type organization towards the landowner class and social system by arguing that the only way to beat the power of the landowner elites was to band poor white and black together. George Washington Carver would likely be a major propaganda figure as a black man humbly making the world better, so why should we treat him differently under the law.

    I think the Protestant churches play a role too. Get the eugenicists to more explicitly control the liberal wing of the churches and get the orthodox like William Jennings Bryan to be pro-Civil Rights and anti-eugenicist as part of their anti-Darwinist platform and you could well see a pro-Civil Rights Christian fundamentalism in the 1910s-30s.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
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  3. Gukpard hominem populist

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    I'm not a native USA citizen... can you explain me these cases (very simplified) and how could they help on the scenario?
     
  4. Tjakari Locusts and Fishbones

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    Plessy v. Ferguson was what constitutionalized racial segregation laws. Roe v. Wade set abortion standards, and since it was decided it's been a cultural cleavage line with people supporting it being either Pro-Choice (to have an abortion) or Anti-Choice (to have an abortion) even though that wasn't really what the case was about. Though that was how the case was perceived.

    TJ will have to explain his reasoning though, I'm not him. Though I do follow the logic that keeping these racially/religiously volatile court decisions on a more local/state level could make the politics around them more flexible, more pluralistic.
     
  5. Theoretical_TJ Well-Known Member

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    So the delay part was to get a post-1900s POD for this forum. IOTL, it took several years after Roe for the Evangelical Protestant community to join the already antiabortion Catholic community after the nationwide legalization in 1973. It was an issue on the upswing in the 1976 Presidential election and much more so in the 1980 one. Also, agreed that Roe wasn't so much about abortion as it was extending the right to privacy.

    My argument was that it's not totally impossible to get a sort of delayed "wake up" response like this among more liberal-minded southerners, particularly in response to aggressive pro-segregationist legislation now fully authorized by Plessy. If there's a sense in which Northerners will attempt to use litigation to force the South to essentially pay for double truly equal facilities, then there could be some pragmatic forces as well that push for at least greater civil rights to stave that off, even at the "risk" of some racial mixing. The argument would be "no carpetbagger Yanks ever again telling us what to do."

    My bringing up the social darwinists, eugenicists, and liberal protestantism is that if you align things a bit differently on the religious sphere at the turn of the century, you might get a situation where the theological conservatives end up forcing the liberals out with the help of their conservative Black brethren. In that case, you'd see a bit of a wedge develop between those whose priority is their Southern, segregationist identity and those whose priority is their Christian faith.

    Just to be clear, I think it's REALLY hard to do OTL, and ultra-hard with a pro-Civil Rights Klan. Just imagining a world with the White Panthers like this is really tricky more than a generation removed from the Civil War.
     
  6. Tjakari Locusts and Fishbones

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    Free State of Jones as the birthplace of the NOTKlan?