AHC: Main Battle Tanks with Real Wheels

Tanks look the way they do and work the way they do because that's how they evovled to be able to do what we want tanks to do.

If a tank had wheels it would not be able to do what we need a Mai nBattle Tank to be able to do.
 

NothingNow

Banned
I was refering to the developer of the tactic on the German side.
The inventor of Combined Arms warfare (as we know it) in Germany? Well it started with von Hutier, and then refined by the Truppenamt starting under Generaloberst von Seeckt. Guderian just refined such tactics further, placed further emphasis on communication and individual initiative, and incorporated lessons picked from the Soviets.


I don't think you can claim combined arms was invented by one individual, rather by several in several countries over a period of time. There are differences in tactics between countries to this day, so there realy isn't just one origin.

Except pretty much everybody's (save the odd African or Afghan Warlord) take on modern Combined Arms warfare these days is the descendant of JFC Fuller's ideas, as interpreted by and improved upon by the Soviet General Staff, especially since everyone either developed their tactics from reading Tukhachevsky, Triandafillov et al, as a direct countermeasure, or in part from experiences gained in War games, like those conducted at Kazan and Lipetsk.

Pretty much everybody else's experimentation in the interwar era was a series of dead-ends, or lacked consideration of the strategic implications of Combined Arms warfare with the Tank at the center of combat.
 
The inventor of Combined Arms warfare (as we know it) in Germany? Well it started with von Hutier, and then refined by the Truppenamt starting under Generaloberst von Seeckt. Guderian just refined such tactics further, placed further emphasis on communication and individual initiative, and incorporated lessons picked from the Soviets.




Except pretty much everybody's (save the odd African or Afghan Warlord) take on modern Combined Arms warfare these days is the descendant of JFC Fuller's ideas, as interpreted by and improved upon by the Soviet General Staff, especially since everyone either developed their tactics from reading Tukhachevsky, Triandafillov et al, as a direct countermeasure, or in part from experiences gained in War games, like those conducted at Kazan and Lipetsk.

Pretty much everybody else's experimentation in the interwar era was a series of dead-ends, or lacked consideration of the strategic implications of Combined Arms warfare with the TRACKED Tank at the center of combat.
^^^THIS^^^
 
The inventor of Combined Arms warfare (as we know it) in Germany? Well it started with von Hutier, and then refined by the Truppenamt starting under Generaloberst von Seeckt. Guderian just refined such tactics further, placed further emphasis on communication and individual initiative, and incorporated lessons picked from the Soviets.

Except pretty much everybody's (save the odd African or Afghan Warlord) take on modern Combined Arms warfare these days is the descendant of JFC Fuller's ideas, as interpreted by and improved upon by the Soviet General Staff, especially since everyone either developed their tactics from reading Tukhachevsky, Triandafillov et al, as a direct countermeasure, or in part from experiences gained in War games, like those conducted at Kazan and Lipetsk.

Pretty much everybody else's experimentation in the interwar era was a series of dead-ends, or lacked consideration of the strategic implications of Combined Arms warfare with the Tank at the center of combat.

Well, one learns new things every day I guess. However It was my impression that Fuller was not the only one who was developing the princibles of armored warfare in Britain, was he the first or just the more prominent one?

Also, not all countries based thier forces on Fuller's Ideas. For example the IDF's first real tanker was a Polish one (Felix something). He orgenised the first tank battalion on the Soviet model. It was later changed based on the IDF's experiance (post 1956 I believe).
 

NothingNow

Banned
Well, one learns new things every day I guess. However It was my impression that Fuller was not the only one who was developing the princibles of armored warfare in Britain, was he the first or just the more prominent one?
He was The First, period, end of story. He Influenced the Soviets, Germans, and literally everybody who used tanks in a manner that was at all viable and effective on the battlefield, and even the IDF uses many of the principles introduced by Fuller. Hell the Merkava is exactly the sort of tank Fuller always wanted to build, designed by Tankers, for Tankers, and based of analysis of extant vehicles, tactics, and then analyzed and synthesized to produce The Tank, as it should be.

Also, not all countries based thier forces on Fuller's Ideas. For example the IDF's first real tanker was a Polish one (Felix something). He orgenised the first tank battalion on the Soviet model. It was later changed based on the IDF's experiance (post 1956 I believe).
The IDF's Tactics and strategy are derivative of their own experiences and operational needs, but again, they still base a hell of a lot off of Fuller's ideas (which have, like Soviet Deep Battle, and the idea of dedicated Close Air Support) proven themselves to be pretty damn accurate and useful time and time again. But, implementation of the various principles of Combined Arms warfare have varied as Israeli operational requirements are vastly different from pretty much every other nation on the planet, except for maybe Switzerland, South Korea and Singapore.
 
He was The First, period, end of story. He Influenced the Soviets, Germans, and literally everybody who used tanks in a manner that was at all viable and effective on the battlefield, and even the IDF uses many of the principles introduced by Fuller. Hell the Merkava is exactly the sort of tank Fuller always wanted to build, designed by Tankers, for Tankers, and based of analysis of extant vehicles, tactics, and then analyzed and synthesized to produce The Tank, as it should be.

The IDF's Tactics and strategy are derivative of their own experiences and operational needs, but again, they still base a hell of a lot off of Fuller's ideas (which have, like Soviet Deep Battle, and the idea of dedicated Close Air Support) proven themselves to be pretty damn accurate and useful time and time again. But, implementation of the various principles of Combined Arms warfare have varied as Israeli operational requirements are vastly different from pretty much every other nation on the planet, except for maybe Switzerland, South Korea and Singapore.

Intersting, sounds like I should read a bit more about that period. Any recomendations?
 

NothingNow

Banned
Intersting, sounds like I should read a bit more about that period. Any recomendations?

Tank by Patrick Wright, but it's a bit dense, verbose and the reviews on Amazon are fill of idiots who don't get the concept of social history, and have issues with long sentences. But it's full of weird shit, like JFC Fuller's involvement with the Occult, and an Italian Fascist journalist's tours through Barbarossa with the Heer and in Italy with the Allies.

Also, get James Dunnigan's How to Make War, (I've got a 1st edition somewhere, while the 4th edition apparently doesn't go as indepth about nuclear weapons.)

Meanwhile, as soon as I get money, or time to get to the library, I'm going to score copies of Joseph Maiolo's Cry Havoc and get some stuff by Fuller, Tukhachevsky and others, since at some point it's just easier to get it from the horse's mouth.
Aside from that, just post a thread in npc, and stuff should just come out of the wood work.
 
Tank by Patrick Wright, but it's a bit dense, verbose and the reviews on Amazon are fill of idiots who don't get the concept of social history, and have issues with long sentences. But it's full of weird shit, like JFC Fuller's involvement with the Occult, and an Italian Fascist journalist's tours through Barbarossa with the Heer and in Italy with the Allies.

Also, get James Dunnigan's How to Make War, (I've got a 1st edition somewhere, while the 4th edition apparently doesn't go as indepth about nuclear weapons.)

Meanwhile, as soon as I get money, or time to get to the library, I'm going to score copies of Joseph Maiolo's Cry Havoc and get some stuff by Fuller, Tukhachevsky and others, since at some point it's just easier to get it from the horse's mouth.
Aside from that, just post a thread in npc, and stuff should just come out of the wood work.

Thanks. I'll try and find Fuller (I think there's a Hebrew translation I saw once). I'm starting a bunch of books about the development in Israel, would be nice to see the origins.
 

NothingNow

Banned
Thanks. I'll try and find Fuller (I think there's a Hebrew translation I saw once). I'm starting a bunch of books about the development in Israel, would be nice to see the origins.

Sweet. I'd actually be interested in reading those, so maybe if you could provide me with some recommendations as well.
 
Sweet. I'd actually be interested in reading those, so maybe if you could provide me with some recommendations as well.

Hmm, no english versions (published by the army/ministry of defense...), I'll try and find good ones anyway. Maybe I can find some in Latrun next time I'm there.
 

NothingNow

Banned
Hmm, no english versions (published by the army/ministry of defense...), I'll try and find good ones anyway. Maybe I can find some in Latrun next time I'm there.

Ah, yeah, my modern Hebrew's crap, but if there's anything in English, or Yiddish for that matter (but that's rather unlikely) it'd be nice.
 
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