AHC: Ludovicus XIV, Roman Emperor
- Thread starter YLi
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Err...He already had trouble to annex north and eastern parts to this kingdom because he was attacked by everyone else in Europe (United Provinces, Great Britain, Holy Roman Empire, Bavaria, Brandenburg, Palatinate, Sweden, Saxony, Savoy, Spain, Portugal, and I'm maybe forgotting some minor ones).
They united in order to avoid Luxemburg and Flanders to be taken by Louis XIV. I don't dare imagine what would have happened if Louis XIV would have wanted to take over the HRE.
They united in order to avoid Luxemburg and Flanders to be taken by Louis XIV. I don't dare imagine what would have happened if Louis XIV would have wanted to take over the HRE.
Well, Charlemagne looked at the Eastern Empire and decided he could have one too. It would be theoretically possible for Louis XIV to use a similar justification, that the Holy Roman Empire is neither holy, nor Roman, nor much of an empire outside of Austria, and decide he too can refound the Roman empire. By this time the Italian territories are outside of the Empire, so there would be no territorial overlap.
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
It wasn't what happened.
In fact the whole coronation upset Charlemagne a lot. Being emperor meant the Pope sanctioned his reign while he would have wanted to sanction Pope's domination.
Not that he didn't wanted an imperial title, but maybe not Emperor of the Romans.
It was reported he left the basilica in great fury against this.
Why? If this title was so void, what would have been the interest? Louis XIV was a pragmatic and rather than void titles, he preferred actual territories.
Besides, the dominant ideology in France at this time was already a semi-nationalist one, praising classical style, french art, etc. Claiming refounding the HRE would have been counter-intuitive with that.
These states are nevertheless on Spanish and Austrian influence, and any tentative to get one would lead to the immediate war with half of Europe.
Interesting; then why did he go to Rome in the first place? I thought he was actually submitting himself to the Pope.
Right, he already was trying to get the edge over Leopold in Europe through other means; he didn't need to be arguing over who was the *real* emperor - having an anti-Emperor and trying to decide which was the rightful one. Although that would have been interesting for parody's sake if nothing else.
Sort of like in the parody I helped a friend write where some time travellers convinced the Pope that the real King of the Franks would be the winner of a hot dog eating contest (and he was *so* relieved when the real King of the Franks showed up.
)It was for the trial of the pope Leo III that was rejected by roman nobles and part of the clergy. He went to say "I'm King of Lombards, Patrice of Romans. Stop this shit, and accept my decision on who have to be pope".
My recollection is he wanted to be emperor, but he didnt want from the popes hands.
He didn't wanted that of an imperial title, at the point he didn't planned to transmit it to one of his heirs.
He knew that he would became emperor and accepted it but he did under the pressure of the elites he protected and/or renewed. Certainly, he had a reluctance to be crowned, whatever the way.
What really pissed him was the fact he was crowned byzantine-way and not frankish-way (well mix of visigothic and frankish way). And by the pope : that meant he didn't had his power from his arms or his position, but under the church's decision.
Finally, things prooved his fears was quite accurate, as the depositary of legitimacy wasn't first the line and prestige, but the Church during all the Middle-Ages.
Once a precedent is established that the pope has the authority to crown a western emperor, there is no way back.
On the other points I do agree with you.It would be certainly very interesting if Charles refuses to be crowned or something happens which makes it impossible/unviable (a revolt in Rome or maybe an assassination attempt look the best possibilities). If the imperial crown is not renewed, the partition of the lands held by Charles might be more successful; in any case there would not be the obsession in controlling Rome. This might have positive outcomes for both Italy and Germany (or to say it better for the eastern frankish realm and for the restored longobard one). Another quite likely possibility might be the establishment in due time of separate national churches, each one with its own "patriarch".