AHC: Long Live the Rightful Emperor of Mexico!

Your challenge, should you take it, is to ensure that Maximilian I of Mexico (and his subsequent dynasty) rule over Mexico until at least 1914. Bonus points if they rule until 1938 or beyond.

Also; what would be the effects of a monarchist Mexico on World War One? Would the Mexicans join the Entente or the Central Powers? Become neutral?
 
If Max for some far out reason manages to stay in the throne, then it will not be that hard as he will likely still be alive and Emperor on 1914, unless he has been killed or deposed by 1914.

WWI as we know it would be butterflied away as the only way Max would still be on the throne is with further assistance from the French. The only way this is happening is if France is not distracted with the Prussians. So you need to change/delay the Franco-Prussian war. And that would have tremendous butterflies.

In any subsequent conflict between France and the hapsburgs, Mexico/Max will want to stay neutral for as long as possible.
 
If Max for some far out reason manages to stay in the throne, then it will not be that hard as he will likely still be alive and Emperor on 1914, unless he has been killed or deposed by 1914.

WWI as we know it would be butterflied away as the only way Max would still be on the throne is with further assistance from the French. The only way this is happening is if France is not distracted with the Prussians. So you need to change/delay the Franco-Prussian war. And that would have tremendous butterflies.

In any subsequent conflict between France and the hapsburgs, Mexico/Max will want to stay neutral for as long as possible.
So no Franco-Prussian War is the POD needed?

Interesting...
 

scholar

Banned
So no Franco-Prussian War is the POD needed?

Interesting...
A delayed Franco-Prussian war, or Max gathering support from another benefactor, would have been enough to keep Max in command.

I doubt good old Max would still be alive in 1914, the obvious successor wouldn't be of his dynasty but his adopted heir, the grandson of the previous Mexican Emperor. I suppose its possible Max could have a kid though.
 
A delayed Franco-Prussian war, or Max gathering support from another benefactor, would have been enough to keep Max in command.

I doubt good old Max would still be alive in 1914, the obvious successor wouldn't be of his dynasty but his adopted heir, the grandson of the previous Mexican Emperor. I suppose its possible Max could have a kid though.
Most people on this site who have talked about TL with a succesful French Mexico say that the war would be butterflied away and may actually cause Prussia to align with France over Germany and also prevent WW1 as it was. Why do you think different?
 
A delayed Franco-Prussian war, or Max gathering support from another benefactor, would have been enough to keep Max in command.

I doubt good old Max would still be alive in 1914, the obvious successor wouldn't be of his dynasty but his adopted heir, the grandson of the previous Mexican Emperor. I suppose its possible Max could have a kid though.

Why? It is not impossible, he would be 82 years old. Sure that is a bit OLD, but Diaz was two years older and still alive (although retired in Paris by the time). Maybe Max dies in the early 1900s, and the Agustin or Salvador (his adopted sons) take over.

However, Mexico would be ripe for revolution at the time. No matter, how liberal Max is, the truth is the Mexico would be in a situation very similar to how it was under Porfirio.

Meaning, a large powerful elite made mostly of the old Mexican elite and recent European and American immigration (yes a few Americans immigrated to Mexico at this time and made it been notably the Creel and Sanborns families) controls most of Mexico, there is a huge underclass of ignored farmers, droughts in 1907 and 1910 and the US finding better and cheaper sugar investments in Cuba (two things I don't see changing) mean the price of corn and sugar have skyrocketed.

As I said, under any administration of the kind, Mexico is ripe for revolution.

The only way to avoid this, is if the Empire had diversified economically (unlike OTL), some early railroads wouldn't help, further investment in other crops like cotton or coffee, as well as port infrastructure. Whether the Empire under Max could have achieved this when Porfirio, who did a lot for Mexico couldn't, is the big question.

Otherwise the Empire would have to adopt populist policies, to control the price of food. Whether the Empire is willing to do this would be hard to know, and the long term effects of such policies are quite harmful.

As any populist government in this position one of the policies that Mexico could adopt would be increased militarization, and nationalization. The promise of recouperatinging territory might be appealing in this case. However, Mexico is likely to just join the war on the side of its sponsor (France if it is still interested), and if France and the US happen to be aligned then it might not be happening.

Also if Mexico does invade, the war would end at a stalemate at best or Mexico would get its ass kicked quite badly (again).
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
I don't think Mexico would be much different under the empire. Would probably be too unstable to invade anyone.

And even if the French get Maximilian's empire to survive, it would always be under serious threat from inside. We would probably get an analogue to OTL's Mexican Revolutions.
 
Juarez accept's to become Prime Minister, not that far fetched seeing as how the two men respected one another, he was very liberal monarch and would probably phase out his power over time until becoming nothing more than a figure head. Still could be interesting though.
 
Juarez accept's to become Prime Minister, not that far fetched seeing as how the two men respected one another, he was very liberal monarch and would probably phase out his power over time until becoming nothing more than a figure head. Still could be interesting though.

He never accepted the offer. Maximilian was too liberal for conservatives and too conservative for the liberals. He was never going to last long.
 
He never accepted the offer. Maximilian was too liberal for conservatives and too conservative for the liberals. He was never going to last long.
Er, I know he didn't I am saying what if he did...you know kind of the point of AH....
Anyway despite his lack of a base he was held up by the royalist's who placed him in power, and Juarez's respect for him and lack of desire to cause more war could lead him to accept and bring the liberals to Maxi's side.
 
Er, I know he didn't I am saying what if he did...you know kind of the point of AH....
Anyway despite his lack of a base he was held up by the royalist's who placed him in power, and Juarez's respect for him and lack of desire to cause more war could lead him to accept and bring the liberals to Maxi's side.
What do you imagine it would take for that to happen?
 
It wouldn't take anything. Benito would spit in Maximilian's face. Honestly one of those two were going to die. Thankfully enough it was Maximilian.
...IT HAPPENED! I am getting really sick of people laughing at this when the position was offered, and it was COMMON KNOWLEDGE, that Juarez and Maximielen respected each other. It's not impossbile.
 
...IT HAPPENED! I am getting really sick of people laughing at this when the position was offered, and it was COMMON KNOWLEDGE, that Juarez and Maximielen respected each other. It's not impossbile.

They respected each other yes, but both (especially Juarez) were too stubborn to be able to work together. The truth is, Juarez was less the democratic the Maximilian. One thing is to admire someone as a leader, or a rival, but that is completely different from being able to work together.

This is a personality thing. Juarez' main goal was the liberalization of Mexican politics, having an emperor, no matter how liberal was, was not going to help in this direction, his secondary goal was to be in power himself.

Maximilian's personal goal, was to stabilize Mexico, and slowly but steadily democratize it (power was not his main goal). However Maximilian's personal goal came in conflict with that of his supporters, who found him too liberal. His main problem was that he alienated everyone liberals and conservatives.

Get Juarez, and some liberal die hards like Lerdo de Tejada out of the picture. And you might find it the some more moderate liberals like Diaz, being able to accept "Maximilain's offer" of having a liberal, federal, empire.
 
They respected each other yes, but both (especially Juarez) were too stubborn to be able to work together. The truth is, Juarez was less the democratic the Maximilian. One thing is to admire someone as a leader, or a rival, but that is completely different from being able to work together.

This is a personality thing. Juarez' main goal was the liberalization of Mexican politics, having an emperor, no matter how liberal was, was not going to help in this direction, his secondary goal was to be in power himself.

Maximilian's personal goal, was to stabilize Mexico, and slowly but steadily democratize it (power was not his main goal). However Maximilian's personal goal came in conflict with that of his supporters, who found him too liberal. His main problem was that he alienated everyone liberals and conservatives.

Get Juarez, and some liberal die hards like Lerdo de Tejada out of the picture. And you might find it the some more moderate liberals like Diaz, being able to accept "Maximilain's offer" of having a liberal, federal, empire.
How late would you say is too late to *get rid of* Juarez and Tejada before Diaz and others like him would refuse the offer?
 
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