AHC: Liberal Germany

With a P.O.D. of 1815, create a unified German state that is significantly more liberal than the German Empire of OTL.
 
Oh, just have Willhiam II have more power. He was militaristic but on internal affairs he was liberal, but he was distracted by outside affairs.
 
A German state, maybe like Hesse-Kassel, which might retain/inherit the Napoleonic liberalism of the Confederation of the Rhine could be used as a core to establish a liberal Germany around.

Alternatively, something along the lines of the 1848 Revolutions have the potential to create quite a Liberal Germany. How long lasting such a Germany would be is another matter entirely.

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Okay, so I'm proposing that during the Congress of Vienna, Prussia is not awarded the extent of territory in Westphalia. Although the powers wish to establish the German tripwire against French resurgence they, especially Austria and France, are too concerned about a strengthened Prussia to allow for the Hohenzollern's to acquire Posen, Saxony, as well as Westphalia.

Instead, the Hesse-Kassel is allocated former Westphalian territories alongside the role of French Tripwire. Prussia is allowed to permanently garrison the region against potential French threats. In recognition of expanded territories, Hesse is allowed to raise itself to a Kingdom (reflecting its former Electorateship and new lands)

Resistance from those Germans Westphalians who had begun to prosper under Napoleon and King Jérôme Bonaparte forced Hesse to grant similar liberal privileges as they enjoyed under French rule and Hesse soon became one of the most liberal states in the German confederation much to the chagrin of the Hessian King who begrudgingly did not have the clout to restrict it.

Fast-forward a tad and liberal revolutions emerge throughout Europe (as OTL 1848) With greater than OTL unrest in Prussia which lacked the otherwise liberal moderating influence of Prussian Westphalians, and the security of Berlin under threat, the Prussian soldiers are recalled from Hesse, which has the unfortunate consequence of allowing Liberal revolution rising northwards from Baden and Frankfurt to take hold of Westphalia. Already acclimatised to the Liberalism of their own state, the King of Hesse becomes a natural focal point of compromise between liberals and monarchists working towards a new pan-Germanic state and is offered the 'crown from the gutter' which Prussia OTL refused. Despite only controlling the West, the German liberal revolutionaries are able to hold their own against the reactionism of Austria and a divided Prussia allowing for a strengthened hand of a somewhat ressurected liberal Confederation of the Rhine under Hessian leadership. Seeing the dynamism of the emerging Liberal Western Germany, and the seeming faltering of Prussia and Austria, smaller polities in the German Confederation including Hannover, begin accomodating themselves with the Liberals. A liberal single German 'Commonwealth' with a centralised though loose government, is proclaimed from Frankfurt with the Hessian King at it's head to succeed the German Confederation.

There's a lot that would probably not work in this (like I've ignored wider European reaction) and I think I fell into a bit of a Hessian wank but what d'ya think?
 
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Yeah, easiest way is to have a different late-19th century Kaiser. Could be more fun with an 1848 Grossdeutschland style outcome but it's really not hard to achieve this. In fact just avoiding WW1 will mean that the ATL German Empire will be significantly more liberal in the 1914-19 period than it was OTL, though that's kinda cheating.
 
I think, but may be corrected, that the biggest issue there is the Prussian traditional elite which is tied (but not exclusively) to the army, and eventually had a disproportionate influence on German society which tended to not be that conservative compared to its neighbours : one could even say that it was less, at least partially, than some of these such as France and yet the Oberste Heersleitung relatively quickly turned into a military takeover.
I'm not sure how it could be done with an united Germany as it appeared historically : but while I think a 1848-built Germany have the best chances to becomes what the OP asks, what could lower the influence of Prussian elite after the 1870's/1880's?
 
1848 would indeed be key here, for the reason @LSCatilina pointed out. As the Vormärz showed, Germany had a large and by that time progressively minded middle class.
With a PoD which leaves the 1870/71 unification and constitution unchanged, though, I´d say liberalization is not so easy anymore, as large parts of the bourgeoisie have, by then, agreed to be co-opted by the agenda of Prussia`s elites. Many here and elsewhere speculate on WI Friedrich III. had not died of cancer in 1888, he was renowned to be more liberal. I´m slightly skeptical here, but it might still be a possibility.
 
Frederick III of Germany was quite liberal. He also ruled for a little over 3 months (he is the second of the kaisers in the Year of Three Kaisers) before dying of throat cancer. If he could be saved, it's very possible that he would support an agenda of liberalization and peace. Married to Victoria of the UK (not that one, but her eldest daughter - and some say favorite), Frederick had plans (notionally) to reform Germany into a parliamentary democracy along the lines of Britain, supported the Progressive Party, and was hated by Bismark (and most Junkers). He also, for example, opposed an attempt to reverse Jewish emancipation in the 1870s and then went on to publicly support the German Jewish community, decrying anti-Semites and famously attending a Berlin synagogue service with his wife. He did very little during his reign, though, probably due to a combination of illness and not wanting to change too much too fast.

How to save him...we could always just handwave it away, or we could have him elect to undergo the risky experimental surgery that was suggested, removing his larynx entirely!

There would be problems, of course. Bismark and many of the rest of the powers in Germany dislike and fear Frederick III and his wife and would be resistant to their proposals, though it's likely that businessmen and intellectuals would support them.

Another possiblity lies with his son, Wilhelm II. Wilhelm II managed to avoid gaining most of his parents' views due to influence from his grandfather and Bismark; if he were to be raised more by his parents and learn to share their views, he could also liberalize, if less radically perhaps. He'd also probably not have his father's pacifism, which he developed on campaign (Wilhelm II was never in a war until the Big One, and even then he didn't serve on the front lines).

I wonder if it would be plausible for him to be raised more in the UK?
 
1848 would indeed be key here, for the reason @LSCatilina pointed out. As the Vormärz showed, Germany had a large and by that time progressively minded middle class.
With a PoD which leaves the 1870/71 unification and constitution unchanged, though, I´d say liberalization is not so easy anymore, as large parts of the bourgeoisie have, by then, agreed to be co-opted by the agenda of Prussia`s elites. Many here and elsewhere speculate on WI Friedrich III. had not died of cancer in 1888, he was renowned to be more liberal. I´m slightly skeptical here, but it might still be a possibility.

Your point about the bourgeoisie is key here: by 1888 the left-wing liberalism of the Freisinnige and their offshoots had little support, while the National-Liberal Party was part of Bismarcks coalition. Even if all parties on the left wing could have agreed to form a coalition, they would only have had a tiny majority in the 1871 Reichstag and never again. Which they wouldn't have done - no liberal party would have entered a coalition with the socialists in the 19th century.

Skepticism is more than valid when it comes to Friedrich III.: his diaries for 1866 to 1888 have only been published in 2012 - they were gathering dust in the former East German Zentralarchiv. Franz Lorenz Müller published a comprehensive analysis of the myth built around him as a liberal reformer foiled by a lack of opportunity (Der 99-Tage-Kaiser. Friedrich III. von Preußen: Prinz, Monarch, Mythos - only in German at this point). I've only had the chance to browse in both his analysis and the diaries, but I find his conclusions quite convincing. To sum up:

Friedrich III. was brought up in the militaristic Prussian tradition and did not plan on limiting the powers of the monarch in any way - however much he was concerned about the suitability of Wilhelm II. as a successor. While being sympathetic to some progressive causes and strongly opposed to anti-semitism, he was just as strongly opposed to what he considered as socialist and catholic political machinations. While he and especially his wife repeatedly clashed with Bismarck and disliked him enormously, they had come to an arrangement: an entry from July 1885 tells us that he met with Bismarck and had agreed to keep him as chancellor in the event of his succession.
 
an entry from July 1885 tells us that he met with Bismarck and had agreed to keep him as chancellor in the event of his succession.

He also, unless I am mistaken, planned to reduce the power of the office of chancellor, though.

I at least don't think that Freddy 3 would have turned Germany into some Platonic ideal of liberalism (even if he wanted to, the pushback from stakeholders would be too high), but he and Victoria could easily have instituted some real reforms, and maybe moved closer to real democracy.
 
(1) The country builds from religious liberty. Since Germany is about 2/3's Lutheran and 1/3 Catholic, this is not a bad place to start from, and

(2) Gemany realizes it's way behind in gaining colonies, and in a strategic countermove becomes an advocate of free trade, that the Congo or India should have the right to freely trade with those whom each chooses. Germany takes a public pose as a champion for the underdog and the third world. And the best way to convincingly take this public pose is to kind of do it for real. :)
 

JJohnson

Banned
Which reforms would Friedrich III need to institute, if he were to reign for, let's say 10 years, or in another example, reign earlier and longer?
 
How do we get Germany to be centralized, like France, unlike the OTL german federal empire?

That woud require a revolutionary regime. The monarchial principal meant that the power of the German princes would remain. If the Prussians had tried that, a long civil war would be inevitable With foreign intervention, a 30 years war is most likely
 
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Get 1848 to succeed...somehow. As I take it, the kings of both Austria and Prussia were highly reluctant, and the movement fell apart.
 

Perkeo

Banned
Get 1848 to succeed...somehow. As I take it, the kings of both Austria and Prussia were highly reluctant, and the movement fell apart.
Indeed that would prevent the OTL split between nationalism ans liberalism. When the founding myth is the overthrow of all authoritarian regimes rather than the victory of one of them.

1848 is your best bet really. A Prussia-unified Deutschland will have a much tougher go of it.
I beg to disagree. Prussian has a long history of liberalism e.g. in religious freedom and the Nazi ideology didn't originate in Prussia either. The problem was that Germany ended up ruled by autocrats who successfully suppressed liberalism and (temporarly) the SPD - but not that those autocrats happened to be Prussian.

My POD is that the Prussian king overplays his hand in march 1848 and gets overthrown so Prussia becomes a republic and the Prussian army fights for the revolution rather than against it. You probably need some earlier precursors to make this possible, but nevertheless Prussia remains a good candidate for leadership in a successful liberal unification.

How do we get Germany to be centralized, like France, unlike the OTL german federal empire?
I don't see the need for that. Many anti-liberal countries are centralized and many liberal aren't.
 
Prussian republican forces, Yay! They'd find great support in the south-west. Toughest enemy, apart from a princely alliance headed by an internally challenged Austria, should be internal: junkers et al.
 
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