AHC: Less Reperations for Weimar Germany?

Laurentia

Banned
As we all know, The WWI Allies reparations commission decided that Weimar Germany had to pay 132 billion gold marks ($33 trillion) in annual installments of 2.5 billion to the Allies. This was crushing to the German economy of the time and a contributor to it's later economic woes. The Challenge here is to find a way, with WWI going the same, to have the Reparations commission have Germany pay a much lower amount than in our timeline. Your PoD can be no earlier then November 12th, 1918, and no later then April 1st 1921.
 
The most obvious PoD is that Germany does very poorly in WW1 and doesn't tear up and destroy the French countryside. The French after seeing almost half their country destroyed became very vengeful.
 
The most obvious PoD is that Germany does very poorly in WW1 and doesn't tear up and destroy the French countryside. The French after seeing almost half their country destroyed became very vengeful.

A.M. Turtle's pretty much got it, the more Germany devastated the countries it was fighting in (especially the French, who were always the most militant about reparations payments) the more likely the Entente is to demand blood and suffering payments which reparations ultimately took the form of, but to some degree they were also punitively designed to deliberately weaken Germany by forcing her to drain her financial resources to enhance those of France.

The Germans aren't 100% blameless either for A. helping start the damn war in the first place and B. doing things like flooding French coal mines on their retreat out of France that went above and beyond the simple devastating effects of constant warfare in a region and into deliberate, spiteful sabotage that made the French none too happy come Versailles.
 
A secretary to the British delegation to the Versailles conference resigns and writes an essay pointing out that an attempt to have the Germans pay reparations would cause a communist takeover, and suggests that instead the Allies pay reparations to Germany. This suggestion is adopted and is successful. Germany does not go communist.
 
The big problem is that reparations destroy the economy of all involved parties. After WW1 no one realized that. So a PoD has to be the realization that all reparations Germany pays would destroy the economy of the victors.

BTW the reparations were never really the problem. The other items of the Treaty of Versailles were.
 
Perhaps stronger communist uprising in Germany and some in the victorious countries make the French and British fear that a German economy crippled by reperations will be enough to turn Germany communist.
 
As we all know, The WWI Allies reparations commission decided that Weimar Germany had to pay 132 billion gold marks ($33 trillion) in annual installments of 2.5 billion to the Allies. This was crushing to the German economy of the time and a contributor to it's later economic woes. The Challenge here is to find a way, with WWI going the same, to have the Reparations commission have Germany pay a much lower amount than in our timeline. Your PoD can be no earlier then November 12th, 1918, and no later then April 1st 1921.

Laurentia

I have heard that view and also the argument that proportionally the reparations were no higher than the ones Germany demanded from France after 1970. Does anyone actually have any figures as to how they compare?

I think some reparations are unavoidable. The war was so long and destructive and also involved so many people that the 'winners' had to get some pay-back from the defeated powers, which basically meant Germany. Putting it loosely it was either 'hang the Kaiser' or be hung, or at least dismissed by their own electorates. Too many people and too much emotion had been invested in defeating the central powers. Coupled with the fact that as Turtle and HeavyWeaponsGuy said the Germans made too big a rod for their own back by their wanton destruction of sites and materials as they withdrew.

Whether they could, or should, be a lower level depends on the circumstances. I don't think a lower level would have made much difference to the feeling of the hard right 'nationalists' in Germany who would have objected to any payment but it might have made the governments more willing to pay the amounts rather than the devastating inflation that was generated instead.

Steve
 
I've heard that Britain and France wanted the Kaiser to stand trial for war crimes. Instead he went into exile in a neutral country. I believe that if Wilhelm was punished for the war, Britain and France would be more lenient on the reparations.
 
Laurentia

I have heard that view and also the argument that proportionally the reparations were no higher than the ones Germany demanded from France after 1970. Does anyone actually have any figures as to how they compare?

I think some reparations are unavoidable. The war was so long and destructive and also involved so many people that the 'winners' had to get some pay-back from the defeated powers, which basically meant Germany. Putting it loosely it was either 'hang the Kaiser' or be hung, or at least dismissed by their own electorates. Too many people and too much emotion had been invested in defeating the central powers. Coupled with the fact that as Turtle and HeavyWeaponsGuy said the Germans made too big a rod for their own back by their wanton destruction of sites and materials as they withdrew.

Whether they could, or should, be a lower level depends on the circumstances. I don't think a lower level would have made much difference to the feeling of the hard right 'nationalists' in Germany who would have objected to any payment but it might have made the governments more willing to pay the amounts rather than the devastating inflation that was generated instead.

Steve


Hi,

no, this is not true.
germany got a lot reperations in 1871... and this helped the german industry... but the biggest difference was the time the germans could pay the money back (beside the sums)

in 1871 the french had to pay the sum - if they could pay it earlier, it was okay
also, the idea of 1871 was punishment but not to destroy the french industry or the nations ability to improve itself

in 1918 the sums were so high, that germany could not pay the money without being crippled.
also the germans should pay 40-50 years...
so you have 1.) a sum per year a strong nation is in trouble to pay and b.) they forbid em to pay more - if they can pay more faster...
most important is, that the whole thing was made exactly in a way that germany could not really pay the money (so b.) isn´t really important, but still show the real idea behind it)

also, the french and brits are so deeply in the hand of the usa they need this money to pay them.

the most important thing: they wanted the money in gold.... but the germans had not much gold, so they need to rent it - from the usa...
so, germany need money from the usa to pay the french and brits so they can give this gold back to the usa... fine for everybody - without germany - but only as long as the germans can pay - but they can´t with a big part of its industry (upper slesia) is taken away...

that is the true point behind the reperations...
so, if germany do not damage one tree in belgium or france it still will be forced to pay so much money
 
The most obvious PoD is that Germany does very poorly in WW1 and doesn't tear up and destroy the French countryside. The French after seeing almost half their country destroyed became very vengeful.


well, sound good, but is still wrong.
the whole thing was about "how to use another guy to pay your bill"

with no damage done the sums would have been exactly the same levels.

only a defeat in 1914 - after 2 months of war could change this - but even this means that
a.) Great britain want to destroy the trading rival (and ist big nasty commerce fleet)
b.) France want to destroy germany... - if it is not possible, they want to ruin the germans so they are weak

Look at upper slesia:
they should vote about the fate.
to make sure they vote for poland they allowed the poles to supress the people - no germans could do something about it (in a german area)
after the vote (sadly for the entente majority of germans AND poles wanted to stay with germany - so this area need to stay with germany) the poles - with some friendly "come on" from the french and brits - start an uproar - poles from outside, not from this area! - and the entente divide the area (against the treaty... )

nope, not the behavior (if you mean this, the brits need to pay reperations for the starved people) but the prewar plans need this payment.
 
Top