AHC Latest Plousable start to WWII

Okay lets see who could have WWII start as late as possible with the same sides of USA,UK,USSR & France vs Germany,Italy and Japan
 
Well now. Depends on PoD. If leave everything up to April 1939 the same, it is very hard to have a later start. Maybe, just maybe there could be additional pressure by the Allies, Mussolini, Goering and the generals on Hitler to postpone the war against Poland. And Stalin disagrees on M-R and negotiations last longer so it is impossible to subdue Poland in one campaign season.

Earlier PoD? Well, if Hitler doesn't occupy Prague, then pressures Poland for corridor and thereafter occupies Prague. But the economy? AFAIK consensus was that occupation of Prague was economic necessity. How to change this?
 
Change what happens with Czechoslovakia - ie Germany does not occupy parts and later all of it in 38/39 or even before that have pressure brought to bear on Germany over Austria - and this allows the referendum of 13th March 1938 to go ahead

Another idea is that the invasion of Poland is conducted by Germany and the USSR on the same day

This gives France and the UK pause and they do not declare war on either or both. Sanctions etc yes but not war.
 
Change what happens with Czechoslovakia - ie Germany does not occupy parts and later all of it in 38/39 or even before that have pressure brought to bear on Germany over Austria - and this allows the referendum of 13th March 1938 to go ahead

Another idea is that the invasion of Poland is conducted by Germany and the USSR on the same day

This gives France and the UK pause and they do not declare war on either or both. Sanctions etc yes but not war.

Or how about an AH where Stalin jumps the gun, remember the premature artillery barrage in the Winter War.

So many butterflies !!!
 
Change what happens with Czechoslovakia - ie Germany does not occupy parts and later all of it in 38/39 or even before that have pressure brought to bear on Germany over Austria - and this allows the referendum of 13th March 1938 to go ahead

Another idea is that the invasion of Poland is conducted by Germany and the USSR on the same day

This gives France and the UK pause and they do not declare war on either or both. Sanctions etc yes but not war.

If Germany and USSR Attacked Poland on the same day . The western allies would just declare war on Germany .
 
Yeah I know this is a hard one but I'm such a fan of some of the late war planes like the BearCat that I wonder what they could of done giving legit shots never mind some of the late war/post war tanks that never saw combat.

Japan to me is the one that would not be open for delaying much later then they did.
 
Yeah I know this is a hard one but I'm such a fan of some of the late war planes like the BearCat that I wonder what they could of done giving legit shots never mind some of the late war/post war tanks that never saw combat.

Japan to me is the one that would not be open for delaying much later then they did.

But Germany is also operating on limited time too. Had they not occupied Prague they would have lots of trouble as they were running out of resources. Same story is about Poland. Hitler needed the war.
 
Question: When did World War 2, well, get called World War 2? If you delay the Asia-Pacific front, do people lack justification to give both conflicts the same appellation until later?
 
But Germany is also operating on limited time too. Had they not occupied Prague they would have lots of trouble as they were running out of resources. Same story is about Poland. Hitler needed the war.
True. So lets say Germany , Italy & Japan have a meeting and decide to start everything roughly eight months later.

Question: When did World War 2, well, get called World War 2? If you delay the Asia-Pacific front, do people lack justification to give both conflicts the same appellation until later?

Looks like 41 FDR seemed to had coined it.. Since the Brits just called it the War. Well the First World War really did not have a Asian/Pacific front and it's WWI
 
True. So lets say Germany , Italy & Japan have a meeting and decide to start everything roughly eight months later.

So instead of:

'Yo, Benito my man, I am going to war against Poland next week...'

'What! You won't be ready by 1942? Yes, yes I know I told you it will start in 1942. But it is boring in Berlin, and Todt dropped in the other day and told me the economy is going down the toilet...'

'Yeah? Whatever. Feel free to join me in 1942. If the war is still on. I'll keep you posted...'
 
As far as Hitler is concerned, 1939 is the time. Even leaving aside that the German economy overheated if he waits until 1942, the British, French, and Soviet military's will have built up to such an extent that they would crush him out of hand.

Some people assume Hitler didn't know the risks he was taking in declaring war on the West and Russia. The evidence is that he did, he just realized that Germany would never be stronger vis a vis her rivals than she was in the late 30's/early 40's. His decision to wage a genocidal war came at the point where Germany had the greatest chance of winning it, something he identified yet surprisingly few others in the German military establishment did (and of those who did, they drew the opposite conclusion from Hitler - that war should be avoided - since they weren't amoral megalomaniacs). Part of Hitler's disdain for so many around him was due to the fact that very often he was right, when so many others who surrounded him were wrong.
 
So instead of:

'Yo, Benito my man, I am going to war against Poland next week...'

'What! You won't be ready by 1942? Yes, yes I know I told you it will start in 1942. But it is boring in Berlin, and Todt dropped in the other day and told me the economy is going down the toilet...'

'Yeah? Whatever. Feel free to join me in 1942. If the war is still on. I'll keep you posted...'

Yeah that's how I see the convo happening.

As far as Hitler is concerned, 1939 is the time. Even leaving aside that the German economy overheated if he waits until 1942, the British, French, and Soviet military's will have built up to such an extent that they would crush him out of hand.

Some people assume Hitler didn't know the risks he was taking in declaring war on the West and Russia. The evidence is that he did, he just realized that Germany would never be stronger vis a vis her rivals than she was in the late 30's/early 40's. His decision to wage a genocidal war came at the point where Germany had the greatest chance of winning it, something he identified yet surprisingly few others in the German military establishment did (and of those who did, they drew the opposite conclusion from Hitler - that war should be avoided - since they weren't amoral megalomaniacs). Part of Hitler's disdain for so many around him was due to the fact that very often he was right, when so many others who surrounded him were wrong.

Really they were much smarter then Hitler.

okay what about a longer false war?? Maybe still have Poland happen but after that The Brits and French do some Jedi mind trick and make Hitler think holding off invading France/Western Europe till fall of 40 or early spring of 41?
 
Really they were much smarter then Hitler.

It was less a question of intelligence in this case and more one of their outlook on life. Hitler's viewpoint was basically the Nazi one that beliebed Germany must wage a genocidal war of conquest or it would be destroyed. From that perspective, it's either start a war in 1939 or all is lost. Those other few in Germany's military and civilian leadership who had the insight to realize their precarious strategic position were of the more traditional conservative view involving maintaining a balance with asserting Germany's power and not getting too destructive. But they also lacked the political acumen to avoid being largely pushed out of government or sidelined by Hitler by 1939.

Once you get past the basic fact that, yes, Hitler did indeed unnecessarily start the war that Germany lost, his actual decisions for the conduct of that war were often decent. I mean, he interfered too much, and later in the war he became inflexible and arbitrary, but a lot of his decisions in the early years were for Germany's benefit.
 
Yeah that's how I see the convo happening.

I feel I have made too brief a post to convey my point.

What happened IOTL was that Hitler had meetings with Mussolini and Japan. They made what is called Anticomintern pact. Hitler and Mussolini also talked and agreed to start considering going to war in 1942. Japan was convinced that at some point, Germany would go to war with the Soviet Union and relieve the pressure on their northern border.

Than, unilateraly, Hitler throw all of that down the toilet. When he saw that he could deal with Stalin and occupy Poland, he did that. Without even consulting anyone of his 'allies'. I think the Japanese found out literally from the newspaper. If they did not have a shortage of friends, it would end their 'alliance' with Germany than and there.

The Axis OTL had more in common with criminal enterprise like Mafia or other gangsters, than with real international diplomatic alliance. Hitler teared up every agreement he ever signed at the first convinience.

So to change this, you need to change the entire Nazi regime. Their view of international relations was based only on convinience. Their convinience.
 
If Germany and USSR Attacked Poland on the same day . The western allies would just declare war on Germany .

Why that ?

Don't forget that Britain considered bombing the Bakou oil fields that provided the german army with oil.

Now, I understand your point which is : how could Britain and France cope with 2 monsters openly allied on the continent ?

Nazi Germany and the USSR never officially admitted to being allied, although they secretely were allies in all but in name.

This is an important point but the fact the western powers don't have a good answer does not mean that they will give an inconsistent answer.

This is a situation where, without the existence of some kind of NATO including Japan too, the western powers just can't cope with. Just look at the figures in populations and industries : Britain and France alone, although having colonial empires, just could not face alone the alliance of Germany and the USSR.
 
Why that ?

Don't forget that Britain considered bombing the Bakou oil fields that provided the german army with oil.

Now, I understand your point which is : how could Britain and France cope with 2 monsters openly allied on the continent ?

Nazi Germany and the USSR never officially admitted to being allied, although they secretely were allies in all but in name.

This is an important point but the fact the western powers don't have a good answer does not mean that they will give an inconsistent answer.

This is a situation where, without the existence of some kind of NATO including Japan too, the western powers just can't cope with. Just look at the figures in populations and industries : Britain and France alone, although having colonial empires, just could not face alone the alliance of Germany and the USSR.

That was my point - given their respective War Industries as they were in 1939 how would they react to what appears to all intents and purposes to be an alliance between Germany and the USSR.

I can easily see France and the UK going WTF???? and then deciding to 'not declare war' as it would also mean declaring war on Russia and Germany at the same time and both nations rearming like feth.
 
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