AHC: Largest possible puppet state

Deleted member 97083

Generally, puppet states are much smaller than the countries that they are a puppet of.

What's the largest conceivable puppet state, where you could say the foreign and domestic policy of an entire empire is basically under the control of an entire separate empire?

As an example: Something like the Ottoman Empire as a whole, weakened by Russia, becoming a Franco-British puppet. Or the Russian Empire as a whole, devastated by the Bolshevik Revolution but not collapsing, becoming an Entente puppet relying on foreign assistance and basically bending to foreign nations' demands.

Maybe the Romans making all of Parthia into a client state, as short-lived as that might be?
 
If Revolutionary France conquered all of Italy and set it all up as a sister republic as the "Italian Republic", this could turn out to be the case.
 
Would you count the Pre-Partition Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth as being a Puppet State of Russia? If so, then that's probably about as large as you can reasonably get.
 
When they have low population densities, states can have much larger territory and still be weaker than their neighbors. Puppet states are no exception. Perhaps a Great Perm or Sibir colonizes Siberia while a vassal of the Russian Tsar? Might require a PoD that gets you a more Euro-centric Russia though.
 
Manchukuo comes to mind, which was substantially larger than the Empire of Japan, though less populated. The issue with client-states is that if they're ever in a position to overpower or extract actual independence from their suzerain, chances are they're gonna do it or die trying.
 
I don't know about actual maximum size, but the largest ratio might be Belgium and the Congo Free State, which is 11,507 square miles to 905,355 square miles at the time, or 1:78.68 for area ratio.
 
The Second Mexican Empire is a contender for largest puppet state, though it wouldn't last very long even if the Republicans were defeated, as Napoleon III was an awful leader of France.
 
I don't know about actual maximum size, but the largest ratio might be Belgium and the Congo Free State, which is 11,507 square miles to 905,355 square miles at the time, or 1:78.68 for area ratio.

Do colonies count as puppets? I mean clients are at least nominally lip-service independent, colonies most certainly aren't.
 
Do colonies count as puppets? I mean clients are at least nominally lip-service independent, colonies most certainly aren't.

The Congo Free State was technically a state in personal union to Belgium, not a direct colony of the other country. Really, that's pushing it, and I admit that I'm skirting the grounds here, but it's about the closest thing you could get to.
 
Manchukuo comes to mind, which was substantially larger than the Empire of Japan, though less populated. The issue with client-states is that if they're ever in a position to overpower or extract actual independence from their suzerain, chances are they're gonna do it or die trying.

On that note, what about the Chinese Government under Wang Jingwei?
 
Post WWI, victorious Wilhelmine Germany restores the Tsar to the throne. With the devastation of the Russian Civil war Russia becomes a virtual German protectorate. Later, client Russia becomes the Zollverein's vehicle to exercise power in the East against the Anglo-American proxies in Japan and China; puppet Russia eventually acquires Manchuria, Outer and Inner Mongolia, Sinkiang, and Tibet, as well as the Gansu corridor.
 

samcster94

Banned
The Second Mexican Empire is a contender for largest puppet state, though it wouldn't last very long even if the Republicans were defeated, as Napoleon III was an awful leader of France.
Also, it wasn't especially popular among the Mexican people.
 

samcster94

Banned
Manchukuo comes to mind, which was substantially larger than the Empire of Japan, though less populated. The issue with client-states is that if they're ever in a position to overpower or extract actual independence from their suzerain, chances are they're gonna do it or die trying.
Even without WWII, it probably would not have lasted.
 
We all know that turned out terribly.

Indeed. Things improved much when Belgium proper took over the territory from the Free state, but it had violated the initial ethos.

Also, just for future advice, remember to multiquote in a single post when you can instead of doing multiple responses in separate posts.
 

ben0628

Banned
British Canada/Australia/South Africa comes to mind.

Is there really a difference between a puppet state and self ran colony?
 
Is there really a difference between a puppet state and self ran colony?

Yes, there is. A puppet state is a country with no de facto independence, but with de jure independence. A self-run colony is a country with neither de facto nor de jure independence, but with self-governance.
 
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