AHC: Largest possible France by 1939?

Size?

  • Benelux, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Aragon, Catalonia, and Valencia

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    30
This belongs in pre-1900, since any post-1900 POD France couldn't plausibly gain anything aside from the corner of Italy around Ventimiglia (for Central Powers Italy--France had a plan for annexing Ventimiglia after WWII) and of course France could possibly gain the Rhineland from Germany. And considering that a good deal of the Western Front of WWI was about preserving Belgian neutrality, I don't see France annexing them either, or Luxembourg, unless Luxembourg joins Germany for some reason before 1914. I definitely don't see France carving up Spain (wouldn't they just support the independence of those areas instead?)

Post-1900, all of them thus seem implausible besides Switzerland, where France had a war plan for invading the country, and possibly if they won the war still (invading Switzerland wouldn't be a good idea for France, I think), they could partition it with Italy on linguistic lines. Maybe Andorra could join France depending on how the Spanish Civil War goes? I don't know.
 

All Rounder

Gone Fishin'
This belongs in pre-1900, since any post-1900 POD France couldn't plausibly gain anything aside from the corner of Italy around Ventimiglia (for Central Powers Italy--France had a plan for annexing Ventimiglia after WWII) and of course France could possibly gain the Rhineland from Germany. And considering that a good deal of the Western Front of WWI was about preserving Belgian neutrality, I don't see France annexing them either, or Luxembourg, unless Luxembourg joins Germany for some reason before 1914. I definitely don't see France carving up Spain (wouldn't they just support the independence of those areas instead?)

Post-1900, all of them thus seem implausible besides Switzerland, where France had a war plan for invading the country, and possibly if they won the war still (invading Switzerland wouldn't be a good idea for France, I think), they could partition it with Italy on linguistic lines. Maybe Andorra could join France depending on how the Spanish Civil War goes? I don't know.

Oops...

Well, I guess the only way for this to work is if the French won back in 1871, preventing Germany from cementing its dominance on mainland Europe.
 
I voted for Benelux, Luxemburg and west-Switzerland. But with Benelux I would say more or less Wallonie with or without Brussels. It would be better if there where more options than instead of "Benelux" which refers to the entirety of the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxemburg.

Geneve wasn't a Swiss city before the Napoleon War. Maybe a small change in the peace treaty can cause that. This will be a minor butterfly and if the Talleyrand is also implemented. It would give Wallonie and Brussels to France. Have France win a major war with Prussia(Germany) and make them cede Luxemburg and the rest of Wallonie to France.

Aah wait, I see now that it's after 1900

Well that is harder. Luxemburg is easier, it could be annexed in a Montenegro way after WW1. But it would require a France that isn't worn down after otl WW1. It would require a very early German defeat or Eastern front priority with sane (modern thinking) French Generals on the Western Front.

Switzerland is of the tables. They are to neutral at that point.

Belgium might if and only if it fractures apart. But I don't think it gonna happen. Because francophones where in charge at the time. Maybe a earlier Flemish national awakening. Which might happen without Belgium in WW1. But there must also be a environment for Radicals on both side to thrive.

I also suppose that the Saarland might be possible. The French otl did make majority German speaking Elzass-Lotharingen to French speaking majority today. But the Rheinland is not gonna happen, far too late for that.
 
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Luxembourg and Saarland. Saarland was annexed by the French post WWI and turned into a protectorate.

If France spends the money to occupy the Rheinland, they could keep it, easy.
 
Change the Franco-Prussian relationship in the 1860s and Luxembourg, along with Wallonia, will go French. With Flanders likely merging with the Netherlands as a result, the French industrial base expands tremendously. France could keep the Saarland as noted above, they also have a real chance to keep a part of northwestern Italy after World War II depending on circumstances. Switzerland might be a tougher one, though?
 
With a post-1900 POD, the most I can plausibly see being annexed is the Saar, taken from Germany. Luxembourg is another possibility, but only if it throws in with the Germans. (Perhaps if it becomes part of Germany?) Language tensions in Belgium were a live issue throughout this period, but they were not nearly acute enough to lead to the split of the country, let alone the secession of the Walloons to France. As for Switzerland, language is even less of an issue--the country is lucky in having multiple overlapping splits, Latin versus Germanic and Protestant versus Catholic. Spain is a non-starter: Why?
 
With a post 1900 PoD, I would think the way to do it is no US military intervention in WWI (but still loans).

This means WWI ends in 1919 with French tanks in Berlin. At this point the French-British have to occupy Germany because of the risk of Communist upraising. To cover the costs of war and occupation, France annexes the Ruhr, as Germany will not pay reparations; the rest of Germany is occupied with British zone in the North and French Zone in the South (with a small Belgium occupation zone in the North East).

Due to longer war, Poland is in no state to stop the Red army when it comes knocking in the 20s, so the French and British armies have to fight it. France annexes its german occupation zone at this time. So does Belgium. UK turns its occupation zone into a rump puppet state.

If a Spanish civil war occurs in the 30s, France can intervene and turn republican Spain into a puppet state if the civil war end in stalemate (North Republican/South Falangist)

That's maximum France I can see by 1939 with a post 1900 POD.
 
How big could France (not including colonies) get in Europe by the time 1939 rolls around?
It realy depends on what POD you are using. I realy doubt that with a POD after 1900 it is possible for France to annex Belgium, the Netherlands, Switserland or parts of Spain. Even Luxemburg is unlikely. None of these countries want to become part of France (I think even Wallonia doesn't, at least not in the early 20th century) and I don't think France is able to conquer any of these countries. Well obviously France can attack and easily defeat the Luxemburgish army, but it won't be able to handle the international reaction. The best parts of French expansionism would be in Germany after defeating them in a war (like WWI). Unless France is incredibly stupid, I don't think either Luxemburg, Belgium or Switserland would join Germany so France would not be able to get any of their territory (and if they would have joined Germany through French incompetent diplomacy, WWI would be very different, partly because the French diplomatic status would be very different).

Simply put, I think that France with the Saar region (and perhaps a bit more of the German Rhineland) is the biggest France can get with a POD around 1900.
 

All Rounder

Gone Fishin'
It realy depends on what POD you are using. I realy doubt that with a POD after 1900 it is possible for France to annex Belgium, the Netherlands, Switserland or parts of Spain. Even Luxemburg is unlikely. None of these countries want to become part of France (I think even Wallonia doesn't, at least not in the early 20th century) and I don't think France is able to conquer any of these countries. Well obviously France can attack and easily defeat the Luxemburgish army, but it won't be able to handle the international reaction. The best parts of French expansionism would be in Germany after defeating them in a war (like WWI). Unless France is incredibly stupid, I don't think either Luxemburg, Belgium or Switserland would join Germany so France would not be able to get any of their territory (and if they would have joined Germany through French incompetent diplomacy, WWI would be very different, partly because the French diplomatic status would be very different).

Simply put, I think that France with the Saar region (and perhaps a bit more of the German Rhineland) is the biggest France can get with a POD around 1900.

This is what this ASB is about.
 
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