AHC: Largest area controlled by Iberians?

Create the largest area controlled by Iberians. It can be in the name of Spain, or by independent Spanish kingdoms.

Iberia in the Caucasus also counts. But it must be actual Iberia, not Colchis or Georgia.
 
Create the largest area controlled by Iberians. It can be in the name of Spain, or by independent Spanish kingdoms.

Iberia in the Caucasus also counts. But it must be actual Iberia, not Colchis or Georgia.
Isn't it contradictory to say that your Iberian area must be in the name of Spain? Isn't Portugal Iberian?
 
Isn't it contradictory to say that your Iberian area must be in the name of Spain? Isn't Portugal Iberian?
It can be in the name of Spain. It can also be by independent Spanish kingdoms.

Portugal would be/is a Spanish kingdom in a technical sense (Christian + kingdom + in former Hispania), and in an ATL it could easily be part of Spain, or even the capital region of Spain depending on how Reconquista and various inheritances go.
 
I think what we got OTL was generous was generous enough. Most of the Americas a fair portion of Italy various parts of Africa, the Philippines and Goa and the Netherlands.
 
Unifying Portugal with Spain proper could help. Almost all of south America would be under this greater Spain's control. Not to mention Mexico and the Philippines. I wonder if with enough early investment Iberia might be able to get its hands on South Africa and Australia. Heck it may be possible to get a Spanish India. Now that's an interesting thought: Mexican-Indian food. Now Im hungry
 
Portugal-Spain as a personal union was around from 1580 to 1640. Didn't really work terribly well (not helped by "Spain" itself being more personal union than one kingdom).

So how do you make this OTL failure stick, let alone try for South Africa, Australia, and/or India?
 
Yeah, OTL was quite an Iberianwank during XVI-XVII centuries...

If you join this (Charles V empire in Europe, which included Castillia, Aragon, Two-Sicilies, Austria-Hungary and the freaking HRE):
Empire-Roman-Emperor-Charles-V.jpg


With Phillip II worldwide empire (which in Europe had also gained several counties within Greece, but lost the HRE and Austria-Hungary):
6533852097_80a282f622_z.jpg


I think it can hardly get any wankier than that.

(Both conquests of the Aztec and Incan empires are clearly ASB, relying on being confused with gods + smallpox in one case, and a candidly trusting emperor + political-savvy conquistador in the other case.)
 
Last edited:
Portugal-Spain as a personal union was around from 1580 to 1640. Didn't really work terribly well (not helped by "Spain" itself being more personal union than one kingdom).

It actually worked quite well while it lasted. Precisely the problems come when the count-duke (not count Dooku :D) of Olivares attempted to unify the tax and levies policies for all the kingdoms. That's what ignited the breakup with Portugal and the short-term exit of Catalonia.
 
Last edited:
It actually worked quite well while it lasted. Precisely the problems come when the count-duke (not count Dooku :D) of Olivares attempted to unify the tax and levies policies for all the kingdoms. That's what ignited the breakup with Portugal and the short-term exit of Catalonia.

That sounds less like a smoothly working union and more like "so long as the precious autonomies were respecting, there were no major problems".

But that may be my POV.

Either way, it does seem to meet the challenge.

Don't see how the conquest of the Aztecs and Incas are ASB - those aren't even high end improbable.
 
Does Al-Andalus count as "spanish"? Because they could control much of southern France and Northern Africa in any half decent wank.
 
I think it can hardly get any wankier than that.

You can add a few bits and pieces, though combining all of them with OTL success is wildly improbable, even if possible:
-The Cape of Good Hope (Could be a good regional supply of staple crops, nice climate.)
-Australia (or parts thereof--Darwin and Perth, probably.)
-Further posts and islands in India and Southeast Asia (Singapore? Similar successes to the Dutch OTL in Java?)
-Successfully invade England, and though the British Isles needn't be under direct rule, it would exclude England from the Americas and from disrupting Iberian control of trade. For a while, anyway.
-Avoid the revolt/loss of the Netherlands, and the Dutch won't be picking off Iberian possessions in the Indian Ocean, and France will be surrounded and isolated. At least while the Spanish can afford to fight the French, Ottomans, and German/Scandinavian Protestants at the same time.

It'll all end in tears eventually unless Madrid liberalizes its economic and political institutions, of course, but they'd have more to lose and maybe more time to collapse gracefully. Not that I'd bet on it though.
 
That sounds less like a smoothly working union and more like "so long as the precious autonomies were respecting, there were no major problems".
As i see it, that's the essence of a smoothly working union :D Like in a relationship, you have to respect each other's personal space hehe.

Don't see how the conquest of the Aztecs and Incas are ASB - those aren't even high end improbable.
No, the fact that Aztecs and Incans were conquered isn't implausible at all. A civilization that was nearly 1000 years ahead of them technologically should make short work of them.
What is extremely implausible is the bizarre way they happened, with many coincidences that sped up the conquest. These conquests happened basically on the march, with the smallest consideration for logistics. And their speed allowed Spain to inherit the empires rather than having to whittle them down (well, eventually they had to, but when the Spaniards already had a strong position within them).

In conventional warfare, Spain would have needed at least to stablish strongholds on the mainland to have a proper supply line before setting onto the conquest of the Aztec empire (an empire they didn't even know existed prior to Cortés expedition).

-Successfully invade England, and though the British Isles needn't be under direct rule, it would exclude England from the Americas and from disrupting Iberian control of trade. For a while, anyway.

If this happened, only the Ottomans and the French would stand on the way of the Hapbsburgs to reconstitute the Roman Empire! :eek:
 
What is extremely implausible is the bizarre way they happened, with many coincidences that sped up the conquest. These conquests happened basically on the march, with the smallest consideration for logistics. And their speed allowed Spain to inherit the empires rather than having to whittle them down (well, eventually they had to, but when the Spaniards already had a strong position within them).

I don't think those are bizarre at all. Disease certainly isn't. Nor is foolish rulers.
 
I don't think those are bizarre at all. Disease certainly isn't. Nor is foolish rulers.
Give me some examples of situations comparable to the conquest of those two empires, and i'll lift my reluctance about the plausibility of Spain conquering America :D
j/k lol

ETA.- i know i'm being a bit bombastic
 
Give me some examples of situations comparable to the conquest of those two empires, and i'll lift my reluctance about the plausibility of Spain conquering America :D
j/k lol

Highly unlikely but entirely possible circumstances at work.

The unlikely part would be if for no apparent reason Spain just stumbled into them without any of the factors in play, and then those factors magically emerged at the prompting of Cortez and his ilk.
 
Highly unlikely but entirely possible circumstances at work.

The unlikely part would be if for no apparent reason Spain just stumbled into them without any of the factors in play, and then those factors magically emerged at the prompting of Cortez and his ilk.

Yes, Cortés and Pizarro were at the very least very perceptive on assesing the political situation of 2 entities they had just found, that was their biggest trump card. They understood the type and structure of the polities they were dealing and took advantage of a momentary weakness. Probably chances like that have happened other times in history, but the people involved didn't see them as such until it was too late.
 
Yes, Cortés and Pizarro were at the very least very perceptive on assesing the political situation of 2 entities they had just found, that was their biggest trump card. They understood the type and structure of the polities they were dealing and took advantage of a momentary weakness. Probably chances like that have happened other times in history, but the people involved didn't see them as such until it was too late.

On the contrary. Europeans pulled it off in India, Indonesia, North America, Siberia and bits of Africa between the 16th and 19th c. Repeatedly. I will admit that the incredibly low cost of conquest is almost too good to be true but overall the pattern says it's not only likely, it's almost certain to happen at some point given enough resources spent.
 
Top