AHC: Large, Majority Native American City in United States

[CandyDragon]

Your challenge, should you choose to accept it, would be to come up with a reasonable alternate United States of America with a majority Native American large city (of above a million people) with a PoD of 1800.

Bonus points if you can achieve this with a PoD of 1850 or later.

 

[othyrsyde]

Given that most Chican@s/Mexican Americans and Central Americans are Native American, OTL Los Angeles.

 

[Beedok]

US looses 1812 more thoroughly, Michigan and Wisconsin and such becomes an Native nation. This receives numerous immigrants from other peoples wanting a bit better of a life. The largest city breaks a million. US conquers it later.

 

[Zuvarq]

Too bad Cahokia existed before the US was created. It would be cool if that could somehow be tied in.

Given that most Chican@s/Mexican Americans and Central Americans are Native American, OTL Los Angeles.

How? Most are not pure Native Americans and almost none practice traditional culture or speak the old languages.

 

[The Admiral Hook]

Just spitballing here, but maybe "Indian removal" is handled differently and all Amerindian tribes are considered one people by the policymakers, concentrating their population into or around a single settlement in a western territory. Maybe by force? Like a limited, temporary, and less severe internment?

When the internment period is over, the second generation natives just stay and are treated well by local non-natives. The town grows. When western expansion heats up, freemen and white settlers bolster the population (maybe it's a river town between Fort Coffee, OK and Fort Smith, AR?) and other displaced natives hear stories of how Native peoples are treated there after they are left alon and migrate.

It's a cool idea, as a large Chicago, Memphis, or St. Louis type city with that many different tribes will have similar issues to Italian and Irish groups in cities east of the Mississippi. A lot of inter-tribal alliances and strive in the streets (think gangs of New York meets Last of the Mohicans...)

Native American organized crime movies would be... well incredibly awesome.

What would they name a place like that?

 

[Zuvarq]

What would they name a place like that?

New Cahokia.

 

[othyrsyde]

Too bad Cahokia existed before the US was created. It would be cool if that could somehow be tied in.

How? Most are not pure Native Americans and almost none practice traditional culture or speak the old languages.

First off, I'm not a 100% Native American, doesn't make me any less Native.

Two, it was kind of a joke. There is a subtle to strong Indigenous identity with most Mexicans though, especially with the 2nd generation.

 

[imperialaquila]

Maybe Oklahoma City, given a different Indian policy?

 

[Zuvarq]

First off, I'm not a 100% Native American, doesn't make me any less Native.

Two, it was kind of a joke. There is a subtle to strong Indigenous identity with most Mexicans though, especially with the 2nd generation.

Oh, okay. I wasn't saying one had to be 100% native to be native though.

But I would guess someone who doesn't practice any native culture, has majority European ancestry, and doesn't identify as native, would probably not be native.

Of course if they identify as indigenous and have an interest in reviving their roots that's a different story.

 

[othyrsyde]

Oh, okay. I wasn't saying one had to be 100% native to be native though.

But someone who doesn't practice any native culture, has majority European ancestry, and does not identify as native, would not be native.

Of course if they identify as indigenous and have an interest in reviving their roots that's a different story.

Outside of a few Latin American countries, I wouldn't say Latinos are mostly of a European descent, more leaning toward the African and Indigenous actually. However, yes, the identity is the most important factor.

 

[Zuvarq]

On that note, maybe a way to get this scenario would be to have Native American identity be more popular in the 19th century.

Also perhaps one state (probably Oklahoma) or one county/city (probably in Oklahoma) has tolerant laws, or a few wealthy individuals that only sell land to natives (kind of like how the Black Wall Street formed in OTL, except native).

Have these Native landowners capitalize on Oklahoma's oil to become wealthy and attract more natives to this newly-formed cultural and economic center.

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

It depends what your definition of native American is. It's not that big of a stretch given a lot of Mexican and Central Americans are of indigenous ancestry , whether they acknowledge it or not. Now if you mean just native Americans from the United States, it's pretty hard, if not almost impossible. In what would have been Sequoyah, indigenous Americans only made up a little more than one tenth of the entire population of that state. The Five Civilized Tribes themselves numbered only 60,000 out of a total population of 600,000.

 

[othyrsyde]

It depends what your definition of native American is. It's not that big of a stretch given a lot of Mexican and Central Americans are of indigenous ancestry , whether they acknowledge it or not. Now if you mean just native Americans from the United States, it's pretty hard, if not almost impossible. In what would have been Sequoyah, indigenous Americans only made up a little more than one tenth of the entire population of that state. The Five Civilized Tribes themselves numbered only 60,000 out of a total population of 600,000.

This is a key point. You would need either a POD in the way back, in addition to reducing the amount of settlers coming.

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

This is a key point. You would need either a POD in the way back, in addition to reducing the amount of settlers coming.

Perhaps maybe a deadlier and longer American Civil War that has much larger numbers of dead and wounded, leaving entire areas of the South and North depopulated from war and any incoming wave of settlers would focus on repopulating those areas instead of heading out West. That certainly gives the native Americans some time but it doesn't change the fact that there are so few of them that they would easily be outnumbered by waves of settlers. At most, I could see a very small city with 100K-200K native Americans as the majority but one million? I just don't see it happening.

 

[othyrsyde]

Perhaps maybe a deadlier and longer American Civil War that has much larger numbers of dead and wounded, leaving entire areas of the South and North depopulated from war and any incoming wave of settlers would focus on repopulating those areas instead of heading out West. That certainly gives the native Americans some time but it doesn't change the fact that there are so few of them that they would easily be outnumbered by waves of settlers. At most, I could see a very small city with 100K-200K native Americans as the majority but one million? I just don't see it happening.

Not sure how to make the war more devastating without an utter collapse of the Union and confederacy plus wars of reconquest. Maybe have lots of Natives end up in Oklahoma as one big reservation?

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Not sure how to make the war more devastating without an utter collapse of the Union and confederacy plus wars of reconquest. Maybe have lots of Natives end up in Oklahoma as one big reservation?

I'm not sure of that myself. As for your second point, maybe the USA goes for full explosion of all Native American peoples east of the Mississippi and force them to resettle in Oklahoma. It would at least boost their numbers a bit since I believe a few tribes managed to keep what little land they still had from white encroachment in OTL. It wouldn't be hard to see them move as well.