AHC: Large Indian Diaspora in Latin America

  • Thread starter Deleted member 67076
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Deleted member 67076

With a POD in 1800, make it so that there is a large Indian (i.e, from the subcontinent) descended population in Latin America.

No, Britain cannot take over what would be a Latin American country and then settle it with Indians, because then it wouldn't be Latin American. :p
 
After slavery is banned, the Latin American countries adopt Indian corvee labour en mass instead?

There was significant British influence in South America especially, so there may be ties this way.

Anyway how large is large?
 
Well, the problem is that rulers will favor White Catholics and there was already a great population surplus in Portugal, Spain, Italy and Germany. Also, Britain didn't seem to care about Indian overpopulation, not even to make money out of it, IMHO Indian diaspora even within the Empire was pretty small if we consider the possibilities of such a large population.
 
I'll try my hand. The Galapagos as we know is owned by Ecuador and was sparsely populated to this day. There were numerous attempts at encouraging colonization from Europe and the continent that ended in failure through disinterest or imported plantation workers (actually political prisoners) from the mainland getting uppity and killing their masters, such as the prominent (despotic) Ecuadorian plantation owners Jose Valdizan and Manuel Julian Cobos. Instead of bringing more continental (native & mestizo) workers to the work in the island's sugarcane plantation and refineries, Cobos decides to follow the example of the British and import a hundred Indian workers from the subcontinent. It is a success and he imports more Indians en masse by contract to San Cristobal, soon making a majority in said island. Cobos dies of old age and his plantation is seized from his successors by the government and the land is split amongst the descendants of the Indian laborers to prevent greater labor unrest. Ecuadorian government contemplates sending them back but they make up the grand majority of the island's and greater archipelago's population (forcing them to leave would make the island virtually empty) and the Indo-Ecuadorians seek to stay. So they stay.

Here it's probably around the ballpark of 10,000-30,000 Indian descendants (some also in the mainland) which is pretty high since we have no Indians, as far as I know.
 
The British brought Indian labour to Guyana and the Caribbean after slavery's abolition, so the first possibility that comes to mind for Brazil to abolish slavery earlier and then take inspiration from Britain. But I'm not familiar enough with Brazilian history to guess at a viable POD.

Although Brazil did very nearly inherit Portugal's empire, which included Goa, so there could be something in that.
 
The British brought Indian labour to Guyana and the Caribbean after slavery's abolition, so the first possibility that comes to mind for Brazil to abolish slavery earlier and then take inspiration from Britain. But I'm not familiar enough with Brazilian history to guess at a viable POD.

Although Brazil did very nearly inherit Portugal's empire, which included Goa, so there could be something in that.

When the Portuguese King arrived in Brazil he introduced tea and Chinese labor to one of his farms. The results were not great. Also, why import "uncivilized savages" to your land if you have plenty of good White Catholic Christians willing to settle your land? The only exception that I can recall is the Chinese and Japanese in Peru, which as a much more organic migration due to the guano boom, and the Japanese in Brazil during the early 20th century when Italy forbid immigration to Brazil.
 

Deleted member 67076

Anyway how large is large?
Lets go with, at least the size of the Arab diaspora.
Well, the problem is that rulers will favor White Catholics and there was already a great population surplus in Portugal, Spain, Italy and Germany. Also, Britain didn't seem to care about Indian overpopulation, not even to make money out of it, IMHO Indian diaspora even within the Empire was pretty small if we consider the possibilities of such a large population.
I'm aware of the challenges. However, I think it is possible to change the minds of elites provided conversion. After all, the Arabs were swiftly assimilated into the educated classes, making them acceptable to the general Criollo elites of Latin America.
 
Isn't this slightly like OTL? From what I recall there is a substantial 'Hinduztani' community in Suriname, as well as Trinidad and Tobago. They are descended from the chartered workers bought over from Bihar and Eastern UP when the British needed people to work their farms and famines and such back in India caused there to be a swell of people willing to undergo such a migration.
 

Deleted member 67076

Isn't this slightly like OTL? From what I recall there is a substantial 'Hinduztani' community in Suriname, as well as Trinidad and Tobago. They are descended from the chartered workers bought over from Bihar and Eastern UP when the British needed people to work their farms and famines and such back in India caused there to be a swell of people willing to undergo such a migration.
Essentially, but communities like this were essentially British colonial creations that did not really occur within their Spanish/Portuguese speaking neighbors.
 
Lets go with, at least the size of the Arab diaspora.

I'm aware of the challenges. However, I think it is possible to change the minds of elites provided conversion. After all, the Arabs were swiftly assimilated into the educated classes, making them acceptable to the general Criollo elites of Latin America.

Most of these Arabs were Maronite Lebanese people. They were in comunion with the Catholic church. Also, it was a more or less organic urban immigration, differently from mostly rural and subsided Italian/German immigration.

Isn't this slightly like OTL? From what I recall there is a substantial 'Hinduztani' community in Suriname, as well as Trinidad and Tobago. They are descended from the chartered workers bought over from Bihar and Eastern UP when the British needed people to work their farms and famines and such back in India caused there to be a swell of people willing to undergo such a migration.

Suriname isn't Latin America and IIRC the deal between the British and Dutch to introduce these workers there involved negociations regarding the Dutch Gold Coast. i.e. The Dutch gave the Brits their African forts in exchange of a boost in the population of their small colony in South America.
 

Deleted member 67076

Most of these Arabs were Maronite Lebanese people. They were in comunion with the Catholic church. Also, it was a more or less organic urban immigration, differently from mostly rural and subsided Italian/German immigration.
And here's the challenge, I suppose.

What would it take for rulers to consider branching out in their choices for subsidized migrants? Something sucking up more European immigration?
 
Essentially, but communities like this were essentially British colonial creations that did not really occur within their Spanish/Portuguese speaking neighbors.

I see what you mean.

In that case an easy way for immigration to such countries. In areas where there is a large mining industry or metalworking indudtry you can get Gujarati migration, especially if said metal is gold.

Otherwise there is the Marwari community, a Rajput community that can be found all over the world even in the most exotic of places. And there's also a large Sindhi Hindu disporia but that was more of a result of the Partition.
 
And here's the challenge, I suppose.

What would it take for rulers to consider branching out in their choices for subsidized migrants? Something sucking up more European immigration?

Probably in a Napoleonic win scenario France would absorb most of Continental Europe migration (as France received a large amount of Italians and Belgians during the 19th century). In this case, Latin American countries will probably seek cheap labor elsewhere. Historically, China and Japan are the obvious choices (s. Peru), but, if they have a nice deal with the Brits it can change.
 
While it's probably stretching credulity, I could maybe seem some elaborate chain of events over time, where Catholic converts in India become a diaspora in the wake of a Hindu nationalist regime and states in a more stable version of Latin America are encouraged by Church officials to take in their fellow Catholics suffering from persecution abroad?
 
While it's probably stretching credulity, I could maybe seem some elaborate chain of events over time, where Catholic converts in India become a diaspora in the wake of a Hindu nationalist regime and states in a more stable version of Latin America are encouraged by Church officials to take in their fellow Catholics suffering from persecution abroad?

Possiby. Though this inspires me for another event.

Another POD like such is that when Brazil's landowners start gaining power and opposing Royal Portuguese and imperial power the Portuguese start recruiting a Indios bureaucracy from Goa. Eventually this urban bureaucracy might even gain plantations.

This adds a new power faction into play. They will most likely oppose the traditional slave owner faction, due to their Hindu heritage and current Catholic religion, so when time for change comes the Indios settlers may side qith the Imperialists in reform.
 
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