AHC: Large European minority in SE Asian country

[La Rouge Beret]

I was recently watching a documentary regarding Brazil and their German minority. How could an independent SE Asian country have a sizable European minority integrated within the country i.e. they are ethnically German / Polish but think of themselves as Thai / Burmese / Malay / Cambodian etc?

 

[Iori]

Getting a European minority is one thing, and doable, getting them to identify with the countries sociocultural group is another; in the case of Brazil the German population integrated so well because they were surrounded by other Europeans and Mestizos.

The closest way I can think of to fully satisfy this would be for Singapore to have a large European minority, as it's one of the few Eastern Asian (that is East Asia and South-East Asia) states that's not an ethno-cultural Nation State in which they could assimilate to the degree required.

 

[tonsofun]

I think the best country for this would be Thailand which as we all know kept its independence. The French often have good trading relations there. If a sizeable number of French set up a community in Ayutthaya or perhaps Bangkok (depending on the era), they would have to assimilate somewhat to the local culture and much like the Chinese communities across SE Asia, the future generations would identify more with the local culture than that of their parents/grand parents and if contact is kept with the homeland, it is likely, there would be enough people coming over to counter any mixed marriage that would occur.

 

[pompejus]

Personally I think the bast way could be a Taiwan that remained in European hands, like Dutch. It seems like a good place to settle and is located strategically for trade with China, Japan and the Dutch East Indies. If a reasonably large group of Europeans settle there, but there are still enough natives and Chinese, I think you can get the situation asked for in the OP.

 

[Vnix]

Also it is quite possible to do in Indonesia, most Indische Nederlandsers consider themselves Indisch first and Dutch seccond after all these years still.

 

[Rush Tarquin]

A larger Kristang community? They've lived there plenty long enough, so that's the best bet for them genuinely identifying with their country.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

I could also think of a larger Spanish diaspora in the Philippines (Peninsulares) if Spain kept the islands.

 

[Sevarics]

Also it is quite possible to do in Indonesia, most Indische Nederlandsers consider themselves Indisch first and Dutch seccond after all these years still.

I was going to mention the Indos but you beat me to it. Heck, my family on my Dutch side left the Dutch East Indies a hundred years ago for the Dutch West Indies and we still eat some Indonesian food. I think if you had had a slightly larger Dutch settlement and a more favorable series of decolonization events, the Indos would have stayed in Indonesia.

 

[Iori]

I could also think of a larger Spanish diaspora in the Philippines (Peninsulares) if Spain kept the islands.

Spain controlled the Philippines until 1898, I don't see why it would start sending settlers in the 20th century.

 

[othyrsyde]

I want to see a large Australian Aborigine minority in the Yukon.

 

[Finn]

I want to see a large Australian Aborigine minority in the Yukon.

Gurkani Alam situation where the Indian powers colonize parts of Australia, and they have that sort of patronizing belief where the Aborigines are holy men, and the Aborigines are mostly left alone. Things come to a head with Russia, earlier than in that timeline, and the sparsely Russian-settled Pacific Northwest is taken from them and given to more tolerant nations. Due to faster advances in technology and industrialization on a wider scale (which was present in the original timeline) climate change comes quicker. The interior of Australia is parched and scorched, but places like the Yukon become more hospitable. The Maregian [Australian] Aborigines are affected by this, and since there is the "noble savage" attitude towards them from the Indian-Maregians there is a religiously-motivated humanitarian effort to give some of the less stubborn, outcasts-from-their-tribes-who-live-in-poverty-in-our-cities Aborigines a new home in the newly hospitable land.

 

[eschaton]

The problem with colonization is Southeast Asia is mostly malarial in the lowlands, which means until the 19th century Europeans had a nasty habit of getting sick and dying. Even once you go through it and survive, and are hence immune, your children will also get malaria and tend to die in large numbers, which could potentially mean a negative birth rate among European settlers.

In general, highlands are a better idea in terms of European settlement in tropical climates. However, the highlands in Southeast Asia aren't well suited for this, as in many cases they are far in from the coastline, and in areas even the native states never fully subjugated. Not to mention they're full of people already.

If I was going to suggest one place for Europeans to settle successfully in Southeast Asia, it would be the Barisan Mountains in Sumatra. Many of them are high enough altitude that the climate is more healthful. And they're not that far away from the coast as the crow flies. Still, the upland areas are dense, undeveloped subtropical rainforest, and it would be tough going to clear out the forest land and develop real settlements there.

 

[katchen]

The problem with colonization is Southeast Asia is mostly malarial in the lowlands, which means until the 19th century Europeans had a nasty habit of getting sick and dying. Even once you go through it and survive, and are hence immune, your children will also get malaria and tend to die in large numbers, which could potentially mean a negative birth rate among European settlers.

In general, highlands are a better idea in terms of European settlement in tropical climates. However, the highlands in Southeast Asia aren't well suited for this, as in many cases they are far in from the coastline, and in areas even the native states never fully subjugated. Not to mention they're full of people already.

If I was going to suggest one place for Europeans to settle successfully in Southeast Asia, it would be the Barisan Mountains in Sumatra. Many of them are high enough altitude that the climate is more healthful. And they're not that far away from the coast as the crow flies. Still, the upland areas are dense, undeveloped subtropical rainforest, and it would be tough going to clear out the forest land and develop real settlements there.

Other places would be northern Sulawewsi. Highlands close to the coast like the Philippines. Low population except around Makassar. Other places would be the Moluccas and the Lesser Sunda Islands east of Bali.
The Ryukyus are a good possibility too. And New Guinea could actually have a European/Aboriginal population the size of Colombia's (now 50 million) since the place has the same sort of topography and climate one finds in Colombia and Ecuador.
All it takes is someone besides the Dutch to colonize the place like Sweden or Denmark--countries impacted heavily by the Little Ice Age. But they have to start early, like the late 16th Century. The Dutch simply did not have any economic necessity for large numbers of people to colonize anywhere that Scandinavia had because of climate and Britain had because of enclosing farmland for sheep raising.

 

[La Rouge Beret]

My original thoughts were a settlement in the highlands, alternatively I was trying to work out a reason for an initial settlement to move inland to the highlands.

 

[FDW]

So, a Singapore that manages to attract larger numbers of European immigrants?

 

[La Rouge Beret]

Perhaps more accurately a Singapore or Hong Kong analogue.

I guess I am just after the right combination of push and pull factors for this to occur. The little ice age is a pretty good push factor, but what about a country collapsing my thoughts were the fall of the Polish - Lithuanian commonwealth and the aftermath of the Napoleonic Wars.

Happy for other suggestions / ideas here...

 

[Jared]

I want to see a large Australian Aborigine minority in the Yukon.

For a given value of "large", that can probably be arranged in Lands of Red and Gold. Though it will have to wait until Act III.

re: the original topic, I agree that the Dutch sound like the best bet. Either the Dutch keep Taiwan in the seventeenth century, in which case you could end up with a Taiwanese equivalent to Afrikaners, or a different formation of Indonesia meaning that most of the Europeans resident there don't leave after independence.

 

[Joseph Solis in Australia]

I could also think of a larger Spanish diaspora in the Philippines (Peninsulares) if Spain kept the islands.

Just have Suez Canal be built 100 or 200 years earlier than in OTL as getting to the Philippines from Spain through the Cape of the Good Hope was much farther and expensive for peasant-dominated Andalucians, Galicians, or Canarians to immigrate to the Philippines.

 

[Joseph Solis in Australia]

Spain controlled the Philippines until 1898, I don't see why it would start sending settlers in the 20th century.

There might be more Spanish immigrants than OTL but not that much to affect the demographics as Spaniards preferred Argentina, Brazil, and Cuba. Extended Spanish rule in the Philippines to say, 1950s, would have in fact meant more Chinese immigration than in OTL.

 

[othyrsyde]

For a given value of "large", that can probably be arranged in Lands of Red and Gold. Though it will have to wait until Act III.

If you do that, you are officially a god of AH