AHC: Korean Japan

Zachariah

Banned
With a POD after the founding of the Joseon Dynasty, would it have been possible for Korea to conquer Japan in its entirety?
 
With a POD after the founding of the Joseon Dynasty, would it have been possible for Korea to conquer Japan in its entirety?

A Korean backed shogunate is probably the best your going to get. Outright conquest, barring an ASB level plauge that wipes out the Japanese archipelago, is out of the realms of possiblity.
 

Zachariah

Banned
A Korean backed shogunate is probably the best your going to get. Outright conquest, barring an ASB level plauge that wipes out the Japanese archipelago, is out of the realms of possiblity.
How so? Why would it be any more impossible than the opposite scenario of Japan conquering Korea in its entirety, which is what happened IOTL?
 
How so? Why would it be any more impossible than the opposite scenario of Japan conquering Korea in its entirety, which is what happened IOTL?

Japan's larger than Korea and didn't experience as much disruption from fighting Mongols, Manchus, and other nomads from the north. Those set Korea back a long ways, and Joseon was founded after a lot of that damage had been done already.
 
A Korean backed shogunate is probably the best your going to get. Outright conquest, barring an ASB level plauge that wipes out the Japanese archipelago, is out of the realms of possiblity.

ASB plague? How about the Plague? If the Mongols bring the Plague back to Asia (presumably on accident) then it’s safe to assume Asia goes to shit much the same as Europe. Assuming it reaches Japan, if it’s especially devastating, the Koreans could end up in charge of the aftermath, turning into the Britain of Asia. Including a dominion in Japan.
 
Japan's larger than Korea and didn't experience as much disruption from fighting Mongols, Manchus, and other nomads from the north. Those set Korea back a long ways, and Joseon was founded after a lot of that damage had been done already.
Japan's larger and more populous, but not orders of magnitude larger. And a Korea that has a battle-hardened military is arguably in a better position to take on Japan.

This is a tall order, but doesn't seem particularly implausible.

EDIT: Some quick googling actually suggests that the populations of Korea and Japan were nearly equal in the 16th century.
 
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Perhaps if Korea conquers/gets conquered by Manchuria they'll have the necessary resources and manpower to take on Japan one-on-one? The later such a war happens, it seems to me, the better.
 
With a POD after the founding of the Joseon Dynasty, would it have been possible for Korea to conquer Japan in its entirety?

In theory yes, the question is why Korea would go fight from province to province against the Japanese, in the first place. The Muromachi period was chaotic enough that individual clans basically became trading intermediaries with foreign nations or sent their own delegations. For Korea, this was the So clan of Tsushima, who the Korean did fight, but going after anyone else would be pointless.
 
In theory yes, the question is why Korea would go fight from province to province against the Japanese, in the first place. The Muromachi period was chaotic enough that individual clans basically became trading intermediaries with foreign nations or sent their own delegations. For Korea, this was the So clan of Tsushima, who the Korean did fight, but going after anyone else would be pointless.
Yeah, the Joseon didn't really think too highly of the Japanese and their capabilities at the time (the result of which could be seen in the Joseon's disastrous lack of preparations in 1592). They didn't really put a conflict with Japan as a major concern; the Jurchen to the north were the main problem and where most of the military focused. As for resources, Korea's right next to China, which takes care of most resource needs, and war for conquest's sake wasn't big in the Confucian order, where bureaucrats and studying the classics took priority over commanders and military text. The Joseon were also mindful of military regimes, seeing the failure of the Goryeo and the military dictatorship that held power there for decades.

Though I'm doubtful as to whether the Joseon actually had the ability to go over to Japan in force, seeing the chronic incompetence by so many Joseon commanders in the Imjin War. The military and navy would have to be reformed well in advance to continue to hold the territory once the Japanese begin consolidating.

Perhaps if Korea conquers/gets conquered by Manchuria they'll have the necessary resources and manpower to take on Japan one-on-one? The later such a war happens, it seems to me, the better.
Manchuria wasn't very populous at the time and it'd be more a resource sink, considering raids from nomads and the Jurchen tribes were still a concern for both the Ming and Joseon. Pacifying the region, keeping the Ming happy (the Ming wanted to arbitrate between the Joseon and Jurchen to keep balance in the region), and settling it would be a long, expensive endeavor. On the flip side, the Manchu had no naval tradition, which let Koxinga run rampant on the Chinese coast. And again, China's just a much more worthwhile target for a would-be conqueror. Japan, by comparison, was just not worth the effort.


The Joseon would need a better navy, better officers, and the drive to go ahead and invade Japan while it's divided. The lack of precedent (the previous invasions by joint Yuan-Goryeo forces proved tremendous wastes of men and money), lack of obvious payout, and difficulty of administration (Korea's terrain is hard enough for travel and bureaucracy to be difficult in the north and southeast, adding seas and more mountains doesn't help), among other things, made it not much of a thought in the Joseon court's mind, I would assume.
 
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