AHC: Keep The British Empire United Into The Modern Day

Deleted member 103950

What events have to change to keep the British Empire so the 'sun never sets on it' united into the modern day? What were the 'key flashpoints' in history (the world wars were clearly two of them) have to have never happened or happened differently for the British Empire to remain united into the modern day?

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Inspired in part by both League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, and Read Or Die. Both of which had a British Empire that survived into the modern day. But I wanted to see what a more realistic scenario of this Idea would look like. Is it possible to even pull this off without ASB interference?
 
extremely, and i mean extremely devolved parliament to the point where each country is doing its own thing.

Also, they'd have to create a commonwealth parliament early on (no later than WW1) which provides representation for everyone in the commonwealth.

Either way, the british part of it would be rather small i'd imagine since they'd only be a secondary power at best in their own empire.

Even then, there will be a push for independance from almost every country with a population of over 10 million in this.
 
Too difficult. Great Britain was already past its prime by WWI and all OTL wars and events simply made Britain too weak to sustain a huge Empire, even if in a formal-only aspect.

A max-devolved Parliament, as suggested, could have helped to hold the Empire a bit longer, but would be a symbolic one, especially in case of larger nations such as India, Canada and Australia. India, for sure, as a somewhat new addition to the Empire and huge native population, would certainly be out by no later than 1940s in any chance. Canada could face an earlier and more intense Quebecois separatism if decisions were still shared with London and large stretches of colonial Africa were simply uneconomical to keep in such structure.

Maybe such Parliament could have helped to a more organized decolonization process, with a kind of intermediate step between a simple colony and full independence, but don't believe that such body would still be in function by the 1990s - even the own British taxpayer would see the no utility to continue to pay for it: Thatcher would be very glad to simply cut and close the structure.
 
I think you need a pre-1900 POD to have even a remote chance of this, and then it will probably only be the white settlement colonies that voluntarily stick around. The problem - or one of them, at least - is that by the time technology had advanced to the point where a trans-oceanic Parliament was practical, all the likely members of a British Federation had their own national identities.
 
First I would use a 1914 map of the British Empire as I believe the Great War is the first mortal blow to the Empire that needs to be avoided. Now I would argue that Irish home rule is the first thread that unravels the Empire, something that is beyond a post-1900 solution, but not without impact. The conquest of Ireland and its incorporation into the British Empire began the Empire but also poisoned the well, home rule might have been accomplished to stave off the shattering of the Empire and I think avoiding the war was the best way to keep Ireland in the British orbit while paving the way for an Empire that could survive. Still a very steep climb. The Great War alienated most of the Empire for the sacrifices made, the Australians walk away rather disgruntled and the Indians begin to feel they die for the British in their wars, avoiding these helps. But I think India was too different and possessed its own independent history that meant it was going to depart, but could it at least stay in a defensive and economic union? I think if India goes then much of the Empire becomes a burden but not entirely, as trade expanded in Asia the chain of outposts still have value and lesser pieces between traditional opponents could be cajoled into staying associated. So I think you can evolve to an Anglophone Sterling zone of the White dominions and some of the minor colonies, but it might not be the Empire headed from London, more a sort of international organization with delegates in London bickering, better trade links and a common valuation currency exchange pinned to Sterling, all but the least populated and most vulnerable are anything but independent nations, yet they all might accept a symbolic British monarch as head of state. So is this the Empire? No. Is it something more than where we are? Yes. That is the best that can be done as we look forward from the decade before the Great war and hope to achieve.

This is the British Empire I have conjured for a post-Great War where the UK was not a belligerent, it is weaker where the Empire fights and Germany is not quashed, it devolves more fully and it is more broken apart but still a recognizable "British-sphere" because the USA does not become the super power or by the "special relationship" subsume the British after dismantling the Empire, the USA is cordial but not allied, hostile to colonialism it really only cares if it really has interests at stake, its military power is that of a peer and more focused, etc., so the British are more independent like the French but actually more independent, still a great power but far from being the power they once were a player in a more balanced multi-polar world.
 
Personally, I think having the British do better in WWII or butterflying away WWII would help ensure that goal along with some reforms to keep said Empire going strong and well into the 21st century.

Oh and I should mention that Hellsing (the anime series) had a surviving British Empire (though given my disinterest and distaste for it, that's the least of my concerns but I digress).
 
To save the British Empire

Absolute musts
1) Keep them out of the 1st WW. Not only do you get the obvious not killing a generation and spending all that money, you put Britain with its established arms industry just off a continent desperate for arms and munitions. They take on the role of the US. And British industry won't cope with the orders so they have to industrialise the Dominions and possibly India. Plus you also head off Irish nationalism, who wants to leave the Empire when you're making money hand over fist because you're part of it?

2) Keep the 1st WW going four or five years. The only way to really do this is to get the US in early. This gives the British time to make their money and industrialise the Dominions. It also kneecaps their potential rivals.

3) Create an anglised middle class in India who can run it for you. And bring India in as at least three separate Dominions. I went with five, but looking at it seven may have been better. This prevents India becoming a single power block. For bonus points you should do this for other important colonies. Egypt is probably a must.

4) Pick a PoD when Joseph Chamberlain is still around and get him to be PM. He's the only one in Britain with the vision and influence to pull it off. This means 1900-1901 at the very latest. I think the Boer War could work.

5) Accept what you get out at the end is not the British Empire. Its a successor state with much of the culture and traditions of the Empire.
 
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Years ago, I read a book on the British experience with decolonization. In the the book, it mention that the Malaysian chiefs feared the Chinese and wanted the British to stay. This would have given the British access to buying tin and rubber with British manufactured goods and British currency. In an magazine article, it mentioned that the various rulers of the Persian Gulf wanted the British to stay as check against Iraq, Iran, and Saudia Arabia. I am sure that they would have been glad to cover the cost of the British arm forces there. If nothing else discounted oil would be a way to make it happen. There were people in Hong Kong that preferred the British to the Chinese. If the British had full owner ship of the "New Territories" this could have happen. Granted there is no way for the British to defeat Mainland China in battle so there was no military threat from the British forces in Hong Kong. It would be more of does the Chinese government want to be seen as an aggressor. There may be other places where local people or rulers see the British as a better alternative than their neighbors. The key in these examples is a deal that everyone wins. The local people get protection from larger more powerful countries and the British would have access to natural resources and trade. Also there does need to be local people in the police and military. Maybe a cadre of British advisors to provide training and so on.

One of the keys to this is the US not pressing Britain so hard on decolonization. Instead they could agree to respect the wishes of the local people.
 

Pangur

Donor
Bad joke warning: Every time I see or hear the name Zhou Enlai an old joke about a Chinese B&B comes to mind - Chew and Lie
 
But I wanted to see what a more realistic scenario of this Idea would look like. Is it possible to even pull this off without ASB interference?

Rule Britannia by Anaxagoras. It's more of a Commonwealth, except all the former colonies such as India are tied to the Empire indirectly. An example would be India and Australia having representation in the Imperial Parliament.
 
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