AHC: Keep Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia German

With a POD after 1943, make those three regions part of Germany today. They don't have to be German continuously, but make it so by the year 2000.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, even if there is some sort of alternate-WWII, the details will be different enough that the wholesale shifting of German borders west is unlikely to be duplicated...

Bruce
 
I've pondered this question over the years, and I'm wondering about an orderly German surrender in 1944 (preferably before the summer). Perhaps some territorial adjustment would happen, but I'm guessing nothing like the whole Oder Neisse disaster scenario.
 

MSZ

Banned
After Teheran, Stalingrad and US entry to the war? Very difficult, as at that point even the Germans must have gotten the message that they have no chance of winning. Though perhaps that could be the key to their survival - Hitler gets killed by some random events, the military takes power and begs for peace while still on French and Soviet soil. They accept withdrawal and surrender to the French and Polish underground armies, while the British and Americans land their troops on all European airstrips. The Soviets are kept at bay by the combined western allied forces. Peace treaty involves severe losses for Germany, like Danzig, Upper Silesia, southern parts of Prussia - but Pomerania, Lower Silesia, northern Prussia and east Brandenbrurg remain German. The generals who pulled off the coup are concidered greatest traitors in history, Hitler is the one betrayed by the second dolchstoss.

Or just have WW3 start. NATO victory at almost any point was assured, and Germany could have easily regained pre-war territories in the process.
 
If you're looking for a simple answer, butterfly Hitler. If not, there's countless ways that the German expulsion could have been avoided, from various war POD's before 1941, to late game WW2 larger Polish-USSR resentment causing Stalin to not give Poland anything.
 
If you're looking for a simple answer, butterfly Hitler. If not, there's countless ways that the German expulsion could have been avoided, from various war POD's before 1941, to late game WW2 larger Polish-USSR resentment causing Stalin to not give Poland anything.
Well, Polish Soviet resentment was huge enough. Polish government in exile was basically not allowed to return and Soviets created Lublin committee and later Provisional Government. Unless in summer 1944 west Allies instead of formal protests tells Stalin to stop the crap or Land and Lease will stop, there is no other way for bigger resentment.
 
Well, Polish Soviet resentment was huge enough. Polish government in exile was basically not allowed to return and Soviets created Lublin committee and later Provisional Government. Unless in summer 1944 west Allies instead of formal protests tells Stalin to stop the crap or Land and Lease will stop, there is no other way for bigger resentment.

Given the crap in question at least at the time involved the USSR claiming a border WINSTON CHURCHILL actually was fine with it having, I doubt the Allies can tell the Soviets to stuff it on everything when the guy who helped ensure British soldiers tried to topple the USSR is fine with it having a border on the Bug.
 
Post-1943 German Prussia is impossible IMO, but Pomerania and Silesia are pretty easy. Just have Truman push for an occupation zone up to the Elbe River, then Stalin retaliates with eastern 1925 borders for his occupation zone, bar East Prussia of course.

The only thing I can imaginer that would allow for a German Prussia is if an anti-Polish person got the influence of Stalin, who denied Poland even southern Prussia. But why the Russians would allow Germans to stay there I do not know, I can only imagine if, say, the war went on for longer and a more thorough Holocaust amongst Slavs began, as well as the war generally leading to more Soviet deaths, which may make Russian settlement of East Prussia impossible.

Thus, whilst Stalin annexes Prussia as an SSR, he is forced to keep the Germans there to maintain the area economically.

However the above Prussian scenario is near-ASB, if not total ASB...
 
What if one of the plots to kill Hitler succeeded in early 1943? Say Hitler is killed soon after Stalingrad, I believe that would be before the Allies demanded Germany's unconditional surrender. The new non-Nazi German government would agree to return to Germany's 1939 borders, or even to the borders of 1937.
 
The possibility of Germany negotiating peace with the Allies or the West alone would not end in favourable terms for the Third Riech. The Casablanca Conference in early January that year called for 'total war' and the 'unconditional surrender' of the Axis powers. This was what helped fuel the commitment of the German people to the war while also eradicating many German resistance groups from the fray. This does make for a more interesting 20th July plot if it is sucessful since now the masterminds of the attempt would now have all the more problems that were not considered plausible at the time. The initial idea of peace with the Allies would breakdown as quick as they were started, leaving three possible options left for them to choose:

1. Focus the majority of the remaining and reserve divisions to the Western front; the defensive line would be from the Siegfried Line to the Low Countries. Inshore U-boat/Naval campaign would differ little from OTL.

2. Move the main front to the East and move most of the remaining and reserve divisions to assist in holding off the Russians all the while taking pressure off the Western Allies. U-Boat/Naval campaign would be move to the Norwegian Sea.

3. Unconditional surrender. Possible chance of a 'land race' between the Soviet Union and the Western Allies.

In any WWII scenario that seeks agreeable terms for Nazi Germany, make sure that you have a solution for the Allied intentions of 'total war' and 'unconditional surrender'. Otherwise, you'l end up with a more ASB idea then intended. :rolleyes:
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Every spare minute will be spent throwing things at the East. The Soviets aren't dumb and won't agree to stop hammering now that they've got the Frantsi on the run.
 
Top