AHC: Keep American cuisine more old-fashioned

[baltur2]

What changes would need to appear in history for dishes and eating customs like this to be still widespread in 21st century USA:

-The centerpiece of the Christmas Dinner is roast goose, rather than turkey

-A quick and hearty breakfast is pork brains and blood fried with onions

-Turtle soup and mock turtle soup (made from boiled calf's head) is a popular high-end meal for celebrations

 

[Johnrankins]

The banning of immigration from anywhere but the British Isles perhaps? That is the only thing I can think of.

 

[Emperor Norton I]

The banning of immigration from anywhere but the British Isles perhaps? That is the only thing I can think of.

That certainly did change eating habits

"Wait, so what you're telling me is, food can have a *flavor* to it?" - Every American circa 1903

 

[marathag]

That certainly did change eating habits

"Wait, so what you're telling me is, food can have a *flavor* to it?" - Every American circa 1903

Us figured out that everything didn't need to be boiled a lot earlier than that.

 

[Thomas Jefferson]

I'm not sure about pork brains and calf's head, but alot of ethnic cuisines (Thai, Indian, Vietnamese) would probably be much less popular without the 1965 immigration reform. You might still see alot more of the meat-potatoes-and canned vegetables cooking that we associate with the 1950s, with Chinese and Mexican food still being relatively exotic.

 

[marathag]

You might still see alot more of the meat-potatoes-and canned vegetables cooking that we associate with the 1950s, with Chinese and Mexican food still being relatively exotic.

Taco Bell and Taco John had Chains going by the end of the '60s, well before any highly increased Mexican immigration that was more a '70s thing, and there was a Benihana in Chicagoland in 1970? or so
Tastes were expanding before that immigration act could have had any effect

 

[Workable Goblin]

Taco Bell and Taco John had Chains going by the end of the '60s, well before any highly increased Mexican immigration that was more a '70s thing, and there was a Benihana in Chicagoland in 1970? or so
Tastes were expanding before that immigration act could have had any effect

That doesn't meant that it wouldn't be perceived as somewhat exotic, though. Chinese restaurants had burst out of Chinatown starting at the beginning of the 20th century, and were basically everywhere within a few decades, but they arguably have not yet broken the mold of being somewhat exotic, not exactly everyday food for most non-Chinese Americans. Partially that was because of deliberate marketing strategies on the part of the owners (using "exotic" decor, for instance), though.

-Turtle soup and mock turtle soup (made from boiled calf's head) is a popular high-end meal for celebrations

Turtle soup went down mostly because of Prohibition, which made sherry (a key ingredient) too expensive to use in making soup even for wealthy people. If you can avoid Prohibition or at least the banning of sherry somehow, turtle soup will probably stay on the menu (admittedly, it will still change, because the terrapins that were the key ingredient will probably either be wiped out or federally protected, but there are other turtles you can use).

 

[Thomas Jefferson]

That doesn't meant that it wouldn't be perceived as somewhat exotic, though. Chinese restaurants had burst out of Chinatown starting at the beginning of the 20th century, and were basically everywhere within a few decades, but they arguably have not yet broken the mold of being somewhat exotic, not exactly everyday food for most non-Chinese Americans. Partially that was because of deliberate marketing strategies on the part of the owners (using "exotic" decor, for instance), though.

When I say exotic, I'm talking about people's attitudes rather than mere availability. For example, my grandparents who were born in the 1930s eat Mexican or Chinese food very rarely, and think they're being adventerous when they do, but for my parents who were born in the 1960s tacos and stir fry are regular weeknight meals and Chinese takeout is something you order when you're too tired to cook. If you didn't have new immigrant groups in the 1970s or 1980s, it would be harder for new cuisines to build up a critical mass of people who new how to make them to become trendy and eventually get incorporated into the standard American diet.

 

[Workable Goblin]

If you didn't have new immigrant groups in the 1970s or 1980s, it would be harder for new cuisines to build up a critical mass of people who new how to make them to become trendy and eventually get incorporated into the standard American diet.

Um, I'm honestly not sure if you're arguing with me or not...the point that I was making was that the mere existence of restaurants dedicated to a cuisine, even the widespread presence of those restaurants, doesn't necessarily mean that the food stops being "exotic". Your grandparents, for instance, were born after Chinese restaurants became widespread and well-known--yet they still, according to you, see Chinese as being "exotic".

 

[Gukpard]

pork brains

You eat brains?

 

[Miriamele]

Yep. It's tasty. In Hungary it was common to eat them on toast. Lots of people still eat it but younger generations are becoming more finicky.
I just did a quick search and found 76 recipes for pork brains on a Hungarian culinary website.

 

[baltur2]

You eat brains?

It's pretty tasty.

Yep. It's tasty. In Hungary it was common to eat them on toast. Lots of people still eat it but younger generations are becoming more finicky.
I just did a quick search and found 76 recipes for pork brains on a Hungarian culinary website.

I'm Hungarian. Nowadays it's harder and harder to find brains and solidified blood at butchers but it's still a known dish in the country.

I've read it was much more widespread in the West too in the 19th century.

 

[Miriamele]

It seems to be a general tendency to abandon many dishes not made from chicken/turkey breast and prime cuts. The wealthier the country the less variety of meat dishes they seem to be eating.

Maybe partly because only lean meat is considered healthy and partly because whatever is considered prestigious at the moment. Like chicken feet used to be a delicacy, now, because it's cheap and poor people can afford it, snobs wouldn't eat it, and I read somewhere it's not sold in the US for being unhygienic or something.

Maybe if eating the whole animal would be considered important (less wasteful better for the environment, etc.) or the health benefits of eating other animals, other parts of animals were emphasized?

 

[steamboy]

I'm just going to leave this lot here for you as a remind of American quisine in the 60's and 70's.

https://imgur.com/gallery/pehuoHY

https://imgur.com/gallery/fijBP7p

Warning. Most of these are pretty much a case of "Every day we move further from God." levels of bad.

 

[marathag]

Like chicken feet used to be a delicacy, now, because it's cheap and poor people can afford it, snobs wouldn't eat it

And 'Sea Bugs', aka Lobster, was food for the Poors until 1890s, before that went upscale as industrial canning took off making the once common Sea Bug, scarce

 

[edgeworthy]

The banning of immigration from anywhere but the British Isles perhaps? That is the only thing I can think of.

That certainly did change eating habits

"Wait, so what you're telling me is, food can have a *flavor* to it?" - Every American circa 1903

Us figured out that everything didn't need to be boiled a lot earlier than that.

Hey American cooking arguably got worse after Independence.
The Art of Cookery Made Plain and Easy was a best seller in the 13 Colonies, and the source to which "First Catch your ... " is attributed. And was until the mid 19th century*.
George Washington, Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson all owned copies. Ben Franklin took his with him to France, and had it translated into French so his cook could still prepare his favourites.

(*After which it was overtaken by The Modern Cook by Charles Francatelli, Queen Victoria's personal chef, which contains the first recorded reference to an Ice Cream Cone; and Mrs Beeton's. One could almost say that Americans were aspiring to eat as well as the British?)

 

[Paolo Giusti]

You eat brains?

You have no idea what porceddu is, haven't you? What are you missing...

It seems to be a general tendency to abandon many dishes not made from chicken/turkey breast and prime cuts. The wealthier the country the less variety of meat dishes they seem to be eating.

Maybe partly because only lean meat is considered healthy and partly because whatever is considered prestigious at the moment. Like chicken feet used to be a delicacy, now, because it's cheap and poor people can afford it, snobs wouldn't eat it, and I read somewhere it's not sold in the US for being unhygienic or something.

As an Italian, I must desagree: quinto quarto ("fifth part" because you cut a beast in 4 pieces, so the 5th part is the waste like liver, kidneys, tripes) is called "poor cusine" but only as a traditional name. In fact, it is without doubt haute cusine.

Maybe if eating the whole animal would be considered important (less wasteful better for the environment, etc.) or the health benefits of eating other animals, other parts of animals were emphasized?

Or you could simply import more italian cousine [Italian-wank stops]

 

[Thomas Jefferson]

Um, I'm honestly not sure if you're arguing with me or not...the point that I was making was that the mere existence of restaurants dedicated to a cuisine, even the widespread presence of those restaurants, doesn't necessarily mean that the food stops being "exotic". Your grandparents, for instance, were born after Chinese restaurants became widespread and well-known--yet they still, according to you, see Chinese as being "exotic".

I was agreeing with you - you need more than mere availability to make food considered normal. IOTL the pattern has been that ethnic foods start out only being made by immigrants from the country in question, then people born in the US try them, then they become trendy, and then they start to become seen as just standard food once something else becomes trendy. If you had stopped immigration from new countries in the 1960s and 1970s, the cycle would have been interrupted and the foods people thought were exotic then would have stayed that way because nothing came along to replace them.

 

[Gukpard]

You have no idea what porceddu is, haven't you? What are you missing...

Well, until the 1900s the modenan branch of my family probably ate something like that...

I'm pretty OK with eating most of the things from a pork, but brains? Well, there is also a brazilian recipe called Chouriço, it is extremely gore to prepare such a thing, as while the pig is being butchered you need to gather as much blood as possible and you make the sausages with the intestines and *bleargh*

 

[Paolo Giusti]

Well, until the 1900s the modenan branch of my family probably ate something like that...

Mmm, I doubt, porceddu is a sardinian dishes. They probably ate a lot of gnocchi fritti (fried dumplings) with ham.

I'm pretty OK with eating most of the things from a pork, but brains? Well, there is also a brazilian recipe called Chouriço, it is extremely gore to prepare such a thing, as while the pig is being butchered you need to gather as much blood as possible and you make the sausages with the intestines and *bleargh*

That is Sanguinaccio. It is delicious. You can also make a cake with pig blood.
In Italy we say "make of smth pig meat" that means use something without waste: it comes from pig butchery since you waste nothing of a pig, not skin, not brain, not bones (ossata, i.e. boiled pig bones: it is not my favoured dishes, but it is ok).