AHC: Judaism-wank

How could Judaism be made a more powerful religion without altering it's doctrine in a major way (unless there is a clear POD)? Especially in the form of a powerful political entity in the Middle East (not necessarily one that survives up to the modern day)? Some thoughts I have had about how to reach this aim:

-take out christianity, the consequence of this is that there is obviously no christianity, but also no Islam, two of the greatest concerns for Judaism.
-friendlier protestantism; I believe that Martin Luther was originally tolerant of Judaism but became the (more widely known) bigot later.
-during break-up of Seleucid Empire a Maccabees-esque political entity appears

There is no limits on what time period they have to come from.
 
I'm not sure if it's possible. If you look at the major leaders that did rise up - Nehemiah for example - they tend to advocate a return to older, purer ways, the expulsion of foreigners, even foreign wives and their children. When you leaders like the Maccabees and Herodians who compromise with pagans/paganism they lose popularity and are deemed "evil", unclean, blamed for anything that goes wrong, etc.

Maybe the Jewish Kingdom of Adiabene (Assyria) manages to last longer, ally with Rome and grow at the expense of the Parthians?
 
Some of the fourth and fifth century Sasanians looked at Judaism quite favourably, I believe, so a Jewish Ērānšahr would be a very good way to turbo-charge Judaism. I think such a Judaism would adopt elements of Zoroastrian and even Christian thought, though. There were plenty of Jewish sects early in Late Antiquity that venerated Jesus as a great Jewish teacher, after all.
 
Have Constantine see a jewish symbol in battle then have him convert and that's that. You have all of europe and the new world.

For the lolz have Cristianity take Judeism's role in history.
 
You need to start a proselytizing, missionary, active convert-seeking tradition in Judaism no later than Alexander's conquests. Basically, instead of trying to break out of the Hellenistic world, the Maccabees need to try to bring it around.
 
Apparently, if we hadn't insisted upon circumcision and other cultural differences, Judaism might have spread to the Hellenistic world.

The real issue is that Judaism is ethnocentric in its foundation and theology. The Pentateuch is a book covering the history, laws and culture of the ancient Hebrews, from Adam to Exodus. It focuses on us and us alone, as a special and distinct group from the Goyim, who would have to convert. We also have Torah portions explicitly discouraging miscegenation between Hebrews and Canaanites.

We are based solely on the existence of a chosen people. If our history or recorded theology was more conversion-geared, we might be able to successfully proselytize.

One such method could be a Hebrew-wank. Have us take advantage of Near East anarchy, allow us a great leader, and we could conquer more peoples. The nature of this hegemony would change the nature of our customs, allowing for conversion and intermarriage. When the Persians explode into the Near East, they would be able to convert, giving us a Persian Achaemenid Empire.

Jewish Persia means widespread proselytization. If the Greeks come and conquer Persia, then their rulers may also convert. In this alt-Hellenistic world, you could see a merger between Hellenistic philosophy and alt-Judaism without the emphasis on a Christ.

I'd argue that if we de-emphasized some of the less-spreadable cultural aspects, de-emphasized Jerusalem as important and de-emphasized the "one people" thing, that we could definitely have converted people.

Without the Diaspora, the rabbinical tradition does not come about, and you have a Judaism that is based solely on the Torah rather than the Mishnah. Zoroastrian influence could even lead to a Kabbalist schism, et al. Obviously, with greater spread comes greater division, and without the specific cultural preservation and the emphasis of "chosen people" the Jewish faith is less cohesive over wide areas. Now, without a hierarchy of leadership, one could also avoid the abuses of the Pope or the conflicts over Caliphal succession. Adonai is not like the Christian god- he is the one authority, if you disobey the Earth is flooded or your cities are destroyed etc. If you establish Adonai as the SINGULAR authority, and avoid temporal religious hierarchy, schisms might be more avoidable.
 
Not wanting to offend or whatever but Adonai IS the Christian God.

Even if you remove rabbinical tradition and base things solely on the Torah, intermarriage (on any significant scale) is still a no-no. From Nehemiah, it seems that Moabite & Ammonite wives were sent away, despite being converts? Also, how do you preserve "Jewishness" in both faith and culture whilst at the same time chipping away at the "we're God's chosen people & should not marry with the gentiles"?
 
I know the two are technically the same- I consider them distinct on an individual level.

As for the "preserve Jewishness"- either you convert a whole lot of people, and lose the unique, separate ethnic identity, or have OTL and its ethnocentric, isolated, very preserverant Judaism. You'd need quite a few customs to change (Hebrew-wank is best way to acheive this) for any wide-scale conversion to occur.
 

Abhakhazia

Banned
The reason why Judaism is not easily exportable is because it refers to other people that are not Jews as lesser than Jews, so it's impossible to wank.
 

Meerkat92

Banned
Additionally, you have the whole problem of evangelizing a religion whose whole purpose is to differentiate a specific group as the "chosen people". Maybe they could pull the same stuff the predestination Calvinists used to do and say "Oh, you want to convert? Well, you must have been in the Elect all along and we just didn't realize it!"
 

Abhakhazia

Banned
Additionally, you have the whole problem of evangelizing a religion whose whole purpose is to differentiate a specific group as the "chosen people". Maybe they could pull the same stuff the predestination Calvinists used to do and say "Oh, you want to convert? Well, you must have been in the Elect all along and we just didn't realize it!"

I literally just said that.
 
Apparently, if we hadn't insisted upon circumcision and other cultural differences, Judaism might have spread to the Hellenistic world.

The real issue is that Judaism is ethnocentric in its foundation and theology. The Pentateuch is a book covering the history, laws and culture of the ancient Hebrews, from Adam to Exodus. It focuses on us and us alone, as a special and distinct group from the Goyim, who would have to convert. We also have Torah portions explicitly discouraging miscegenation between Hebrews and Canaanites.

We are based solely on the existence of a chosen people. If our history or recorded theology was more conversion-geared, we might be able to successfully proselytize.

One such method could be a Hebrew-wank. Have us take advantage of Near East anarchy, allow us a great leader, and we could conquer more peoples. The nature of this hegemony would change the nature of our customs, allowing for conversion and intermarriage. When the Persians explode into the Near East, they would be able to convert, giving us a Persian Achaemenid Empire.

Jewish Persia means widespread proselytization. If the Greeks come and conquer Persia, then their rulers may also convert. In this alt-Hellenistic world, you could see a merger between Hellenistic philosophy and alt-Judaism without the emphasis on a Christ.

I doubt you could get the Persians to convert given how that was in the middle of Zoroastrianisms golden age.
 
Top