As the title states, what would a Japanese Australasia look like, and how could it come about?
Perhaps they round up and exile all their Christians.
I'm guessing this would be before Cook came across Australia.
I mean I'd imagine given that Japan is a relatively moderate country (at least in comparison to northern australia) they certainly would opt for somewhere where Cook first settled anyway. What was Japan's naval capabilities at that point anyway, could they make the trip from the northern pacific down to the south pacific. Certainly would be interesting.
Either way i doubt they'd be any better to the aboriginals than the British where.
Well they were at war with Korea and China at the time, so they had a fairly sizable navy, and their Red Seal ships were trading as far south as the East Indies, so technologically this shouldn’t be insurmountable.
It’s hard to believe it would be quite as bad as this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_War
What would the Japanese name Australia?Tokugawa doesn’t start isolation, instead he dies a few years later and another Emperor takes his place, being more welcome to foreigners and encouraging European studies.
Eventually a exploratory trip is sponsored by the Emperor, reluctantly. The trip explores the Southern Seas, stopping in Manila and Malacca along the way, before touching off Western Australia.
The Emperor is interested in this, also fascinated with tales of the cities of gold in the East, decides to send criminals and willing people to start a colony in this unknown southern land.
by 1750, Australia has been fully colonized, alongside with it’s sister island.
This could pretty much butterfly the Opium and the World Wars, since there is a possibility Japan decides to go ham on China 200 years earlier, or a China more outward-looking.
Not wholly plausible, but a good start.
For present day, probably just like OTL Japan with some native mix if the Japanese doesn’t fully exterminate the Aboriginals.
What would the Japanese name Australia?
That's a very interesting scenario! I would like to know, what kind of language would the "Kirishtan" peoples speak? A mix of Portuguese and Japanese with other Eurasian influences? What would be the name of Kirishtan Australia? Also how would the indigenous peoples of Australia fair in this scenario? Would they suffer as they did IOTL or would they mix in with the Kirishtan, Asians, and Europeans to form a melting pot of culture? What would this version of Australia look like in the present? And what of New Zealand?So, I realize that what I'm about to propose maybe a bit tangential considering the OP, but it's an idea that has been floating in my head for a while, so I thought I could just share it here.
The "crazy" scenario I've thought of goes basically like this:
So, what do you guys think of this? I know it's not a "purely" Japanese australia scenario, but the bulk of the population is still made of japanese descents and, considering how immersive Japanse culture can be (christian missionaries sent to Japan seemed to adopt their clothing style and customs quite quickly while still remaining christians), I'd guess this alternate Australia's culture would be largely Japanese-based, althought predominantly catholic and with considerable Portuguese and southeast asian influences. No place was colonized with a completely homogenous group of settlers anyway...
- Portugal takes a more assertive role in asserting its domination of Nanban trade during the 16th century. To do this, they colonize Formosa and vassalize the Ryukyus, sending a small amount of settlers from the mainland and Portuguese southeast asia to these islands. They also start to import some japanese workers, mostly from lands controlled by Catholic daimyo, which they also have more influence over ITTL due to using their strenghened position in the far east to assert dominance over the Jesuit mission to Japan.
- Due to Portuguese control over Formosa and the Ryukyus, the Dutch are unable to begin trading with Japan. They attempt to take this possessions from the Portuguese, but fail. Due to the lack of an alternative European nation to trade with, the Tokugawas (understanding that Japan cannot be completely isolated and needs to keep at least a mininum of contact with the outside world), allow the Portuguese to continue trading even after banishing christianity, just as long as they restrain their activities to to port-city Nagasaki (which ITTL is also a Portuguese enclave from the beggining), as happaned with the Dutch IOTL.
- Nagasaki, the Ryukyus and Formosa become the refuge for most of Japan's christian population. Wishing to maintain at least decent relatioships with the Portuguese whiole still getting rid of christianity, the Tokugawas encourage Japanese christians to settle there, with most christian daimyos being exiled instead of being force to convert. The daimyos take with them large portions of their domain's christian population, which is also encouraged by the Tokugawas so that they don't have to massacre them.
- The Japanese christians mix with the Portuguese and eurasian creole peoples from southeast Asia, forming a new "Kirishtan" creole people.
- The christian daimyos, still ambitious even in exile, decide that, having been exiled from newly stabilized Japan and with no realistic prospects for militairy adventures in Korea and China, it would be a good idea to establish a Kirishtan maritime empire, led by them but with Portuguese protection, with the colonies perhaps paying aleigence to Portugal, or perhaps to the Japanese emperor (though not to the Shogun, which they would decry as ilegitimate).
- They aseembkle a fleet with material and tecnhical support from Portugal, and then proceed to conquer territories in southeast Asia. After ataining only very moderate success there, and with their prospects for future expansion limited by competition from other powers, they resort to further exploration, eventually stumbling upon Australia.
- Finally, the colonization of Australia proceeds as a joint portuguese-kirishtan project, with most of the population coming from Formosa and the Ryukyus, but with mainland Portugal and Portuguese southeast Asia also sending some settlers. The european settlers in particular bring with them mediteranean crops which are suitable for agraiculture in southwestern Australia. That way, the population grows quickly and the colony prospers. Besides self-sufficiency, the colony's economy is initially based on rubber tree plantation, but later gold and silver deposits are found, and mining becomes profitable.
I would love to see such a language! Someone posted a snippet of a Portuguese-Japanese creole on reddit, Nagasaki-Ringu. Maybe the language of the Kirishtans could share similarities with that one.I would like to know, what kind of language would the "Kirishtan" peoples speak? A mix of Portuguese and Japanese with other Eurasian influences?
That's a very interesting scenario!
I would like to know, what kind of language would the "Kirishtan" peoples speak? A mix of Portuguese and Japanese with other Eurasian influences?
What would be the name of Kirishtan Australia?
Also how would the indigenous peoples of Australia fair in this scenario? Would they suffer as they did IOTL or would they mix in with the Kirishtan, Asians, and Europeans to form a melting pot of culture?
What would this version of Australia look like in the present?
And what of New Zealand?
I would love to see such a language! Someone posted a snippet of a Portuguese-Japanese creole on reddit, Nagasaki-Ringu. Maybe the language of the Kirishtans could share similarities with that one.
Tokugawa doesn’t start isolation, instead he dies a few years later and another Emperor takes his place, being more welcome to foreigners and encouraging European studies.
Eventually a exploratory trip is sponsored by the Emperor, reluctantly. The trip explores the Southern Seas, stopping in Manila and Malacca along the way, before touching off Western Australia.
The Emperor is interested in this, also fascinated with tales of the cities of gold in the East, decides to send criminals and willing people to start a colony in this unknown southern land.
by 1750, Australia has been fully colonized, alongside with it’s sister island.
This could pretty much butterfly the Opium and the World Wars, since there is a possibility Japan decides to go ham on China 200 years earlier, or a China more outward-looking.
Not wholly plausible, but a good start.
For present day, probably just like OTL Japan with some native mix if the Japanese doesn’t fully exterminate the Aboriginals.
So, I realize that what I'm about to propose maybe a bit tangential considering the OP, but it's an idea that has been floating in my head for a while, so I thought I could just share it here.
The "crazy" scenario I've thought of goes basically like this:
So, what do you guys think of this? I know it's not a "purely" Japanese australia scenario, but the bulk of the population is still made of japanese descents and, considering how immersive Japanse culture can be (christian missionaries sent to Japan seemed to adopt their clothing style and customs quite quickly while still remaining christians), I'd guess this alternate Australia's culture would be largely Japanese-based, althought predominantly catholic and with considerable Portuguese and southeast asian influences. No place was colonized with a completely homogenous group of settlers anyway...
- Portugal takes a more assertive role in asserting its domination of Nanban trade during the 16th century. To do this, they colonize Formosa and vassalize the Ryukyus, sending a small amount of settlers from the mainland and Portuguese southeast asia to these islands. They also start to import some japanese workers, mostly from lands controlled by Catholic daimyo, which they also have more influence over ITTL due to using their strenghened position in the far east to assert dominance over the Jesuit mission to Japan.
- Due to Portuguese control over Formosa and the Ryukyus, the Dutch are unable to begin trading with Japan. They attempt to take this possessions from the Portuguese, but fail. Due to the lack of an alternative European nation to trade with, the Tokugawas (understanding that Japan cannot be completely isolated and needs to keep at least a mininum of contact with the outside world), allow the Portuguese to continue trading even after banishing christianity, just as long as they restrain their activities to to port-city Nagasaki (which ITTL is also a Portuguese enclave from the beggining), as happaned with the Dutch IOTL.
- Nagasaki, the Ryukyus and Formosa become the refuge for most of Japan's christian population. Wishing to maintain at least decent relatioships with the Portuguese whiole still getting rid of christianity, the Tokugawas encourage Japanese christians to settle there, with most christian daimyos being exiled instead of being force to convert. The daimyos take with them large portions of their domain's christian population, which is also encouraged by the Tokugawas so that they don't have to massacre them.
- The Japanese christians mix with the Portuguese and eurasian creole peoples from southeast Asia, forming a new "Kirishtan" creole people.
- The christian daimyos, still ambitious even in exile, decide that, having been exiled from newly stabilized Japan and with no realistic prospects for militairy adventures in Korea and China, it would be a good idea to establish a Kirishtan maritime empire, led by them but with Portuguese protection, with the colonies perhaps paying aleigence to Portugal, or perhaps to the Japanese emperor (though not to the Shogun, which they would decry as ilegitimate).
- They aseembkle a fleet with material and tecnhical support from Portugal, and then proceed to conquer territories in southeast Asia. After ataining only very moderate success there, and with their prospects for future expansion limited by competition from other powers, they resort to further exploration, eventually stumbling upon Australia.
- Finally, the colonization of Australia proceeds as a joint portuguese-kirishtan project, with most of the population coming from Formosa and the Ryukyus, but with mainland Portugal and Portuguese southeast Asia also sending some settlers. The european settlers in particular bring with them mediteranean crops which are suitable for agraiculture in southwestern Australia. That way, the population grows quickly and the colony prospers. Besides self-sufficiency, the colony's economy is initially based on rubber tree plantation, but later gold and silver deposits are found, and mining becomes profitable.
This relies on the Christian Daimyo actually being more than just several minor lords in Kyushu, and just scattered in some parts in Japan in general. The Christian Daimyo were small in both numbers and land, save the Otomo but their a paper tiger, and Otomo Sorin would not convert for a while. Otherwise the Portuguese would have to extend their influence into Honshu, and Portuguese influence in Japan was always at risk if a friendly lord got deposed, the defeat of the Ouchi in the 1550's saw any chance for Portuguese or at least chrsitian influence in Honshu shut down.
Your making the assumption the Tokugawa's rise was inevitable when Motoyasu/Ieyasu really lucked out. The then Matsudaira Motoyasu started out as a hostage of Imagawa Yoshimoto and managed to become independent after his death at Okehazama. The now Tokugawa Ieyasu conquered his former lord's lands while managing to resist the Takeda with help from the Oda. However, this left the Tokugawa as a regional power, checked from any real power by their allies the Oda to the west and Hojo to the east. He was then dispossessed of his old lands by Toyotomi Hideyoshi and given lands in the Kanto plains even further from the capital. However because Hideyoshi failed to really secure his sucession, it allowed Ieyasu a chance to become Shogun. Getting a united Japan willing go the Tokugawa route would quite convoluted like OTL if you can even ensure a united Japan for the premise to work.
Also wouldn't Portugal be stretching itself thin to do this? Portuguese Asia alone ranges from several forts in India, Malacca, Indonesia, and Macau. Messing with the Ryukyus would piss off China, while they could go for Taiwan what would ensure they have enough of troops to go aid the weak Christian daimyo as well?