Your challenge is : How do you get Japan to colonize Malaysia in ww1? Perhaps Malaysia gets colonized by Germany instead of Britain or Japan joins Central Powers and they win ww1 ?
AHC : Japanese colonize Malaysia ww1
- Thread starter ghappy1000
- Start date
Cook
Banned
The British have been in Malaya since the late 18th century, well before the Germans were considering overseas colonisation, well before there was even a unified Germany in fact; the British still ruled Hanover when they colonised the Malay Peninsula.
You would need a point of departure somewhere in the early part of the 19th century to achieve this.
You would need a point of departure somewhere in the early part of the 19th century to achieve this.
Flocculencio
Donor
There was nothing called Malaysia before 1959- you're referring to Malaya and parts of Borneo.
Malaya has been firmly in the British sphere of influence since the Anglo-Dutch Treaty of 1824 and in parts (as Cook points out) since the late 18th C
Adding to the guys above..
The Japanese dudes DIDNT considering Imperialism as their objective until WW2.
The Japanese dudes DIDNT considering Imperialism as their objective until WW2.
Kou Gakei
Banned
Taiwan, Korea, Manchuria, and Mongolia would beg to differ (although technically those latter two were more of sphere of influence).
Back to the topic: the only way I see this happening is if Britain sold off North Borneo to Japan in exchange for aid and the German Pacific Islands. Then you would have part of Malay as Japanese.
Korea certainly wouldn't stop at just begging to differ.
Returning to the topic, perhaps the Japanese can take Malaysia if- (and I'm assuming many things in this here) the Japanese were on the other side of the British. Perhaps they can collaborate with the Americans and take over the Pacific.
Kou Gakei
Banned
The brings up the question of why Japan or the US would fight Britain in WW1, which is the era the OP is talking of.
French expansion there would have been fairly unlikely at any date before the Dutch would probably have taken over instead, I think, barring a French triumph in the Napoleonic Wars (or earlier) in which case... butterflies...
The peninsula is simply too close to India, and too significant with respect to the sea-route between India & China, for a Britain that rules the waves to tolerate an establishment of French control for [at least] several decades after that war ended otherwise.
To be honest, the help that Japan could immediately give to the UK, especially when the latter is in trouble during the tense days of 1917, is minimal at best (spare capital is hardly something that is worth trading two colonies for). The easiest route would be for Germany to defeat the Allies, throwing the UK into chaos, and Japan uses the opportunity to help itself to French Indochina and Malaya. Perhaps... just perhaps... the UK might be exhausted enough that it willingly gives up its 'Gibraltar of the East' without too much of a fight.
Japan would have to be stupid to join the Central Powers. If it did so, it would have to fight, by itself, in a theater which the Entente reigned supreme (kind of like WWII, I guess). You'd have to have very, very, very desperate to do something like that, and Japan was never that desperate in WWI.
Japan would have to be stupid to join the Central Powers. If it did so, it would have to fight, by itself, in a theater which the Entente reigned supreme (kind of like WWII, I guess). You'd have to have very, very, very desperate to do something like that, and Japan was never that desperate in WWI.
NothingNow
Banned
Yeah this.
That said, they weren't ballsy/stupid enough to try and start a fight with a first-rate naval power over something as economically and strategically important as the Strait of Malacca though.
Waging a war to secure their possessions in Manchuria and Korea from Russian encroachment, or acquire all of Micronesia for it's fishing rights and Copra? Hell yes.
The US probably could be cajoled into it somehow. Japan OTOH, was tied at the hip to Britain thanks to strategic concerns on both sides.
This is possible if the UK stays out, since the IJA was really close to Germany at the time, and well, Russia will be too busy elsewhere to protect all of
Japanese banking interests didn't have that much money.
Still, they'd sooner agree to a lend-lease sort of deal, with Britain and France getting money to buy Japanese-made arms and artillery. (Like what happened with the Arabe-class destroyers IOTL.)
That said, if French loans were guaranteed by industries in China and Vietnam, that would be somewhat possible. I don't see Britain ever putting Malaya up as collateral though. Wei Hai Wei would be a definite maybe though (it'd really depend on if the Japanese actually wanted a second, much shittier harbor in Shandong.)
EDIT:
Actually, if Britain (and thus Japan) stayed out, Germany would've been the dominant combatant in the Pacific, since both the French and Russians didn't have a single light cruiser that could match one of the Dresden-class, while Scharnhorst and Gneisenau each outweighed the entire french naval contingent in the Pacific in 1914. And the Japanese would likely not have gone against Britain at the time, as there was no real profit in it, for too much effort.
That said, if the IJN did sail against the Royal Navy in WW1, the result would've been a foregone conclusion in the former's favor. Which is kinda expected when you pit the best trained and best equipped navy of the early 20th century against one that TBH massively underperformed throughout the war thanks to serious issues in pretty much every area.
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Another possible way for this scenario - a timeline
Or maybe another possible pod is during the 17th century. Since it mostly affects Malaysian history, it shouldn't create too many butterflies for WW1.
1641:The Dutch return Malacca to the Sultanate of Johor instead of colonizing it.
late 18th - early 19th century: The British take Penang island and Singapore as historical [either as colonialism or maybe the Sultanate sides with the Dutch in gratitude for what it did in 1641 and they find out about British actions in India, although the latter is rather ASB].
19th century:An independent and united Malaysia is formed when most of the Malay states unite. The capital city is in Johor Bahru [DUE TO BUTTERFLIES].Malaysia also pulls a Meiji or goes to be conservative in Islamic matters.
note:The capital city of Malaysia is Kuala Lumpur
October 1914:Malaysia joins central powers after receiving news of jihad to regain Penang and Singapore islands.
7 December 1914:The Japanese land on Kelantan. The Malay Navy[Tentera Laut Diraja Malaysia], German light craft and Von Spee's squardon [also due to possible butterflies] sortie to intercept the Japanese invasion.
10 December 1914:In a glorious battle, the Malaysian navy, the German light craft and Von Spee's cruiser squardon fight the Japanese. They inflict losses on the Japanese but they lose 4 German cruisers[2 armored and 2 light] and a lot of German and Malay light craft. [most of the hypothical Malay navy would be based on torpedo boats, gunboats, patrol boats and armed sailing ships and
8 December 1914 to 15 March 1915: The Japanese continue to occupy Malaysia. The Germans and Ottomans send aid using merchant ships trapped in neutral southeast Asian ports and sailing ships, but the Japanese and British navies capture them or chase them away. The Malaysian army recruit Indians in the country, taking advantage of how the British treated them.
15 March 1915:The Malays had to surrender to the Japanese. Most of the remains of the Malay navy and the German naval and merchant ships try to break for the Dutch East Indies or scuttle themselves to avoid capture. The Malaysian Army[Tentera Darat Malaysia] fled to the forests to avoid the shame of capture.The royal family evacuates to the Dutch East Indies on the navy's flagship. The cruiser Emden fought a battle to ensure the royal family made to safety and was sunk.
March to May 1915: The Malay guerillas rebelled against the Japanese [as per otl].
Or maybe another possible pod is during the 17th century. Since it mostly affects Malaysian history, it shouldn't create too many butterflies for WW1.
1641:The Dutch return Malacca to the Sultanate of Johor instead of colonizing it.
late 18th - early 19th century: The British take Penang island and Singapore as historical [either as colonialism or maybe the Sultanate sides with the Dutch in gratitude for what it did in 1641 and they find out about British actions in India, although the latter is rather ASB].
19th century:An independent and united Malaysia is formed when most of the Malay states unite. The capital city is in Johor Bahru [DUE TO BUTTERFLIES].Malaysia also pulls a Meiji or goes to be conservative in Islamic matters.
note:The capital city of Malaysia is Kuala Lumpur
October 1914:Malaysia joins central powers after receiving news of jihad to regain Penang and Singapore islands.
7 December 1914:The Japanese land on Kelantan. The Malay Navy[Tentera Laut Diraja Malaysia], German light craft and Von Spee's squardon [also due to possible butterflies] sortie to intercept the Japanese invasion.
10 December 1914:In a glorious battle, the Malaysian navy, the German light craft and Von Spee's cruiser squardon fight the Japanese. They inflict losses on the Japanese but they lose 4 German cruisers[2 armored and 2 light] and a lot of German and Malay light craft. [most of the hypothical Malay navy would be based on torpedo boats, gunboats, patrol boats and armed sailing ships and
8 December 1914 to 15 March 1915: The Japanese continue to occupy Malaysia. The Germans and Ottomans send aid using merchant ships trapped in neutral southeast Asian ports and sailing ships, but the Japanese and British navies capture them or chase them away. The Malaysian army recruit Indians in the country, taking advantage of how the British treated them.
15 March 1915:The Malays had to surrender to the Japanese. Most of the remains of the Malay navy and the German naval and merchant ships try to break for the Dutch East Indies or scuttle themselves to avoid capture. The Malaysian Army[Tentera Darat Malaysia] fled to the forests to avoid the shame of capture.The royal family evacuates to the Dutch East Indies on the navy's flagship. The cruiser Emden fought a battle to ensure the royal family made to safety and was sunk.
March to May 1915: The Malay guerillas rebelled against the Japanese [as per otl].
That wouldn't work either. Once Britain is in Singapore, Penang, Burma and extend their influence into Siam, Malaya gets taken as well for good measure.
Even if Malaya survives to join the Central Powers, then they face a much more immediate threat from the RN and invasion by forces in India and other locations in the neighbourhood.
Even if Malaya survives to join the Central Powers, then they face a much more immediate threat from the RN and invasion by forces in India and other locations in the neighbourhood.
It is pretty ASB for a Japanese presence in Malaya during WW1. OTL, the colonies they seized were all previously German possessions, and Germany had no hope of having colonies in SE Asia. By the time of the German Empire (1871), the British and the Dutch had divided the Malay archipelago 50 years prior, and Penang would have been a British possession for nearly a century. On Borneo, you could see the Spanish having a greater sphere of influence in Sabah during the 19th cent., then losing it to the USA in 1898, but definitely no German presence that would allow the Japs to walk in.
If the Japanese had entered the war on the side of the Central Powers, they would have been soundly beaten. If they could not win in 1941, they definitely couldn't have pulled it off in 1914. Formosa and Korea would have been lost and there would have been no Japanese Empire to shout about.
If the Japanese had entered the war on the side of the Central Powers, they would have been soundly beaten. If they could not win in 1941, they definitely couldn't have pulled it off in 1914. Formosa and Korea would have been lost and there would have been no Japanese Empire to shout about.