AHC: Japan became a maritime 'power' similar to England/Britain

[merlin]

If Japan had become less feudal, and evolved similar to Britain. Could its sea-faring capabilities expand its reach into the Pacific?
As with Britain the nearest land-mass was strong, but by stretching out in different directions there would be opportunities.

How far could the Japanese expand in the 16th, 17th, 18th & 19th centuries before making contact with Europeans?

 

[Deleted member 109224]

Have Toyotomi Hideyoshi opt to go after Taiwan and Manila rather than Korea. Japan thus focuses more on maritime activity and taking its cut of the pacific trade rather than becoming isolationist. As wealth accrues, Japan opts to slowly rework the vassal system in Asia rather than try to take over China.

As Japan gets even richer, Japanese leadership opts to be more adventurous regarding overseas activity, looking for markets, looking for vassals, etc.

 

[GlobalHumanism]

Have Toyotomi Hideyoshi opt to go after Taiwan and Manila rather than Korea. Japan thus focuses more on maritime activity and taking its cut of the pacific trade rather than becoming isolationist. As wealth accrues, Japan opts to slowly rework the vassal system in Asia rather than try to take over China.

As Japan gets even richer, Japanese leadership opts to be more adventurous regarding overseas activity, looking for markets, looking for vassals, etc.

This, but more even more critical is the need for a neighborhood rival to constantly threaten Japan with seaborne invasion.
I.E. Spanish Armada during the Tutor Dynasty
And for that to happen, the main PoD(s) have to had happened in mainland Aisa.

 

[Deleted member 109224]

The Ming were bound to collapse eventually. Whatever dynasty replaces it - Northern Yuan restoration, the Qing, some native dynasty - could be a fine enough rival/threat I'd think.

 

[Tales Weaver]

This, but more even more critical is the need for a neighborhood rival to constantly threaten Japan with seaborne invasion.

Could Korea be this 'rival'?

 

[Gwachiko]

This, but more even more critical is the need for a neighborhood rival to constantly threaten Japan with seaborne invasion.
I.E. Spanish Armada during the Tutor Dynasty
And for that to happen, the main PoD(s) have to had happened in mainland Aisa.

Found a typo it's "Tudor" not "Tutor".

 

[Gwachiko]

Could Korea be this 'rival'?

It was never strong enough to rival Japan. China is a better rival. Like France to England, China always outnumbered Japan's population and was richer.

 

[ArchimedesCircle]

It was never strong enough to rival Japan. China is a better rival. Like France to England, China always outnumbered Japan's population and was richer.

What about a Goguryeo unified Korea with a sizable portion of Manchuria becoming part of the core territories? Could such a state support the population needed to rival Japan?

 

[Gwachiko]

What about a Goguryeo unified Korea with a sizable portion of Manchuria becoming part of the core territories? Could such a state support the population needed to rival Japan?

Unified militarized Korea with Manchuria would be a perfect rival for Japan.

 

[Faeelin]

One imagines these two hypercompetitive states on its borders will have some knock on effects on China, but fortunately the Qing state was isolationist and pacifist.

::Looks at map::

Oh, oops, it basically doubled China's size. So this may have some thoughts about this.

 

[BellaGerant]

It was never strong enough to rival Japan. China is a better rival. Like France to England, China always outnumbered Japan's population and was richer.

Can't really call pre-1800s China a rival to pre-1800s Japan the way France and England were rivals, I would say. France was richer and more populated than England in a 4 or 3:1 ratio but Qing China was 9 or 10:1 to Japan in the 1700s and I can't imagine Ming China would be any worse off than Japan immediately after their Warring States Period.

As for Goguryeo, wouldn't it be more concerned with expanding westward, into the richer Chinese lands, than concern itself with Japan?

If the Yuan managed to avoid getting wiped by storms, that might help to centralize Japan and create a precedent for successfully invading Japan.

 

[Riain]

Muscat and Oman created a maritime empire in the Indian Ocean between 1650 and 1820, so they can do it so can Japan.

What was the East Asian state of the art with ships in the 1600s or whatever? The only thing I can find is the Chinese treasure fleet, but I think I once read that a Japanese oceangoing junk sailed to America in the late 1700s. Certainly a 160', 800t Junk the "Keying" sailed from China to New York and London in 1846, and I doubt it was of revolutionary size and capability at the time, it was likely normal and much like ships of previous centuries.