AHC: Italian-Style Fascism rising in Weimar Germany

How would Italian Fascism manage to rise in Germany, most far right groups I heard of in Germany were based around what would become Nazism.
 
Depends on what you mean by Italian-style, the Beer Hall putsch was Hitler imitating (or trying to) Mussolini's march on Rome.
 

SwampTiger

Banned
You would have to start with removing the anti-semitic wing of the NDSP before they gained the reins of control within the party. Not sure if that is possible without that particular group heading off on their own.
 
Authoritarian nationalist without Jew hatred is not the same as national soxisocia
True, Italian fascism wasn't as antisemitic until as Nazism until the late '30s when Germany was the senior partner in the alliance. However, Hitler was a large admirer of Mussolini in the early '20s.
It's difficult to understand fascism as an abstract ideology on paper or a coherent ideological package like communism rather than a street gang like unemployed X Color-shirt members who did more street-brawling than reading. A lot of fascism is about aesthetics and violence for violence's sake. When they were in power they generally made things up as they went along.
The Doctrine of Fascism, Mussolini's fascist manifesto, wasn't published until about a decade after the March on Rome. Their attitude to theory and laws was basically is basically summed up by the blackshirt slogan "me ne frego" (I don't care). Fascist are almost mirror opposites of marxists like Lenin who spent years writing books and pamphlets in exile or arguing about the declining rate of profit.
 
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Mussolini "Paritio Nazionale Facista" was a political party out national conservative, right wings and ww1 veterans.

Germany had similar elements like Centrum Partei, DNVP and Stahlhelm, who could form also German version of PNF
But they were missing a leader who united them under one goal, and there were the NSDAP under Hitler and his charismatic evil voice...

Centrum Partei, DNVP and Stahlhelm wanted return to good old days of the German Empire and to buried this Weimar "Failure"
They even try get crown prince Wilhelm von Preussen als there Leader and candidate for Reichs President.
Former Emperor Wilhelm II. prohibited that under menace he would evict his son from line of heirs and out the family, (Wilhelm did that with his grandson because of a Marriage.)
As Hitler took over Weimar, Wilhelm II regret that decision deeply...
 
True, Italian fascism wasn't as antisemitic until as Nazism until the late '30s when Germany was the senior partner in the alliance. However, Hitler was a large admirer of Mussolini in the early '20s.
It's difficult to understand fascism as an abstract ideology on paper or a coherent ideological package like communism rather than a street gang like unemployed X Color-shirt members who did more street-brawling than reading. A lot of fascism is about aesthetics and violence for violence's sake. When they were in power they generally made things up as they went along.
The Doctrine of Fascism, Mussolini's fascist manifesto, wasn't published until about a decade after the March on Rome. Their attitude to theory and laws was basically is basically summed up by the blackshirt slogan "me ne frego" (I don't care). Fascist are almost mirror opposites of marxists like Lenin who spent years writing books and pamphlets in exile or arguing about the declining rate of profit.

Indeed. Philosophically, the Italian fascists claimed to be Hegelian(and according to Marcuse at least, didn't understand Hegel at all). The Nazis claimed to be anti-Hegelian(and according to Marcuse, did understand Hegel correctly).

And while anti-clerical, both the Italian fascists and the Nazis had no problem allying with the most reactionary religious factions(Petain etc) in other nations. Something you would NEVER have seen the Russian Communists doing.
 
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You would have to start with removing the anti-semitic wing of the NDSP before they gained the reins of control within the party. Not sure if that is possible without that particular group heading off on their own.
That would mean removing Hitler, ie the guy responsible for their rise in the first place. No Hitler, no Nazis.
 
Indeed. Philosophically, the Italian fascists claimed to be Hegelian(and according to Marcuse at least, didn't understand Hegel at all). The Nazis claimed to be anti-Hegelian(and according to Marcuse, did understand Hegel correctly).

And while anti-clerical, both the Italian fascists and the Nazis had no problem allying with the most reactionary religious factions(Petain etc) in other nations. Something you would NEVER have seen the Russian Communists doing.
Fascism in Italy and Germany made democracy more likely in a sense by destroying the conservative order that helped them get to power. The argument in Ralf Dahrendorf's Society and Democracy in Germany is that fascism's rise to power paved the way for democracy (after fascism had been defeated, of course) by suppressing more reactionary groups like the church, landed gentry, and minor aristocrats. When fascism died it took the reactionary factions with it, and destroyed the socioeconomic basis for authoritarianism.
In a counterfactual without fascism, the anti-Hitler reactionaries like Von Stauffenberg, the Junkers, and the DNVP would have been around for much longer to prevent a full democratization in Germany.
 
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