AHC:Israel loses 1967 war

samcster94

Banned
We all know they won the war and the current occupation stems from it. What if they lost the war and the Arabs won??? Also, no trolls, and no anti-Semitism(the armies invading obviously are, but you can't post it).
 
Any possibility of a 2nd Holocaust, or would the victorious Arabs treat the Jews decently?

As far as I know the Arabs just wanted the Jews to exit the Levant. I have no idea if they would go full genocide if all they wanted was them to exit Palestine but that's exactly what Hitler said and did. No offense to the Arabs, but there objectives after winning aren't very clear.

Also as long as the U.S exists I don't think they can lose unless they start the war themselves.
 
Any possibility of a 2nd Holocaust, or would the victorious Arabs treat the Jews decently?
I don't think there'd be anything organized as the Holocaust. But expect a lot of extrajudicial killings of Jews, and conditions generally being made unbearable enough for the vast majority of Jews to flee their homeland :(
 
How do the Israelis lose? Their war machine was and is awesome. Do the Arabs shoot first? There's a chance then that an appeal for international aid might be successful.
 
Yes, Israel had nukes at the time, and was even ready to deploy them via fighter-bomber if things really went disastrously. The British helped them get them.
 

Deleted member 97083

They are slaughtered en mass and driven into the sea-though WW3 probably begins before then.
Why would WW3 start? The Soviets may not have liked Israel's alignment with the West, but they would hardly support the faction seeing Israel destroyed completely. That wouldn't benefit the Soviet Union's strategic position. Or even if it did, the Soviets would benefit more from simply not getting involved.
 
Why would WW3 start? The Soviets may not have liked Israel's alignment with the West, but they would hardly support the faction seeing Israel destroyed completely. That wouldn't benefit the Soviet Union's strategic position. Or even if it did, the Soviets would benefit more from simply not getting involved.
The Israelis would call on the Americans who would then attack the Arabs(remember international and domestic pressure second holocaust ongoing) the Soviets intervene to protect their clients-and boom.
 
Very cautious reply. First I don't think there would be genocide (as in industrial scale mass murder), certainly a lot of violence and not a fun place to be Jewish. But the world is watching and the Nazi genocide is only a little over twenty years earlier. The Arab governments wouldn't engage in organised slaughter in those circumstances. Not to say one hell of a lot of turning a blind eye to impromptu violence from Arab troops.

However ethnic cleansing is a definite possibility. However I expect a large portion of the Jewish population would flee pretty quickly, simple fear will drive them out, encouraged by said violence. You might get mass evacuation by various western powers.
 
Which Arabs? They had their own motives. Jordan would try to annex the whole area, as the King had been wanting more territory. Part of why the Syrians and Egyptians were often suspicious of him. Though maybe I am thinking of the wrong guy...
 
Wait, what?
Yep.
While Israel didn't begin series production or advanced designs (i.e. boosted) until 1968 it had at least two weapons assembled in the days before the '67 war (triggered by the 16MAY and 26MAY Egyptian overflights of Dimona that were seen as preparatory for a strike) and may have assembled a couple more (no more than 2-4) during the early stages of the war.
In fact Israel could have detonated a test device in autumn of 1966, all the pieces were ready, but the political issues prevented such a test.

In December of 1966 an serious accident occurred in the separation facility at Dimona that killed (at least) one worker and (while contained) required significant decontamination efforts that delayed the production of fissionable material.
Full scale separation of plutonium (Purex) began in early '68 and by the 1973 war Israel had a stock of around 15-20 deliverable weapons.

FYI the security at the Dimona facility was (and remains extreme); in '67 more than half the Israeli stock of HAWK missiles were stationed there and an IAF Mirage was shot-down during the Six Day War for straying into restricted airspace. Not to forget LN114 in 1973...
 
Yep.
While Israel didn't begin series production or advanced designs (i.e. boosted) until 1968 it had at least two weapons assembled in the days before the '67 war (triggered by the 16MAY and 26MAY Egyptian overflights of Dimona that were seen as preparatory for a strike) and may have assembled a couple more (no more than 2-4) during the early stages of the war.
In fact Israel could have detonated a test device in autumn of 1966, all the pieces were ready, but the political issues prevented such a test.

In December of 1966 an serious accident occurred in the separation facility at Dimona that killed (at least) one worker and (while contained) required significant decontamination efforts that delayed the production of fissionable material.
Full scale separation of plutonium (Purex) began in early '68 and by the 1973 war Israel had a stock of around 15-20 deliverable weapons.

FYI the security at the Dimona facility was (and remains extreme); in '67 more than half the Israeli stock of HAWK missiles were stationed there and an IAF Mirage was shot-down during the Six Day War for straying into restricted airspace. Not to forget LN114 in 1973...

I know the Israeli's have nukes and everyone assumes they'd use them as a last resort but I have my doubts. For the Israeli's to be desperate enough to use them means they're going to lose a war and be over run. Using 2 or 3 nukes tactically won't change that, neither will using them strategically. And using them at all, especially strategically will cost them a lot of international sympathy and seriously jeopardize any potential of international support to protect their Jewish population in the inevitable defeat they're facing.

I look at the nukes as a blackmail device aimed primarily at the US. The threat of their use more or less guarantees US intervention exactly to prevent the Isreali's pushing the button.
 
I think you'd see the USS "insert name here" and her task force take up positions off shore and pointed suggestions from the US directed against the Arab countries. Something along the lines of "now is a good time to start talking peace... or else." And I think you'd see that long before the Arab troops get any sort of chance for something like mass killing of civilians or anything.
 
Yep.
While Israel didn't begin series production or advanced designs (i.e. boosted) until 1968 it had at least two weapons assembled in the days before the '67 war (triggered by the 16MAY and 26MAY Egyptian overflights of Dimona that were seen as preparatory for a strike) and may have assembled a couple more (no more than 2-4) during the early stages of the war.
In fact Israel could have detonated a test device in autumn of 1966, all the pieces were ready, but the political issues prevented such a test.

In December of 1966 an serious accident occurred in the separation facility at Dimona that killed (at least) one worker and (while contained) required significant decontamination efforts that delayed the production of fissionable material.
Full scale separation of plutonium (Purex) began in early '68 and by the 1973 war Israel had a stock of around 15-20 deliverable weapons.

FYI the security at the Dimona facility was (and remains extreme); in '67 more than half the Israeli stock of HAWK missiles were stationed there and an IAF Mirage was shot-down during the Six Day War for straying into restricted airspace. Not to forget LN114 in 1973...

That they had nukes isn't the issue for me, it Britain helping them, what's the story there?
 
How do the Arabs manage to win the conflict given how lopsided it was in otl. Even if the conflict is fought on less favorable terms for Israel than otl I find it difficult to believe that the Arabs would manage much better than a white peace.
 
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