AHC: Israel Joins The European Union...

Israel OTOH, would be a stretch from a geographical POV, but would fit right in culturally & economically as well as being small enough not to change the dynamics much. But as mentioned before, for the EU to officially consider Israel as a candidate there must be an iron-clad and permanent solution to the Palestinian conflict first. And the US, EU & UN all tried to mediate a solution, and all failed...

* I wouldn't let the Ukraine in any time soon either f.e., at least not until their economy is at a decent level and their parliamentarians stop getting into brawls

So... Israel won't ever join. Seeing as a lot of people don't seem to want any sort of peace.

Heated debates often get a little too heated in just about every parliament in the world.
I remember not to long ago a British MP picked up a ceremonial mace. Unfortunately, he didn't hit anyone.
Then there's the Labour MP who punched a couple of Tories.
 
So... Israel won't ever join. Seeing as a lot of people don't seem to want any sort of peace.

Heated debates often get a little too heated in just about every parliament in the world.
I remember not to long ago a British MP picked up a ceremonial mace. Unfortunately, he didn't hit anyone.
Then there's the Labour MP who punched a couple of Tories.

Given how hard the EU pushed into Eastern Europe and let in countries that still have significant issues a brawl in parliament isn't a major issue. As Joyeux puts it these things happen. While the imprisonment of the former PM is a big issue for the Ukraine (and the treatment of her) the major block to them joining is that I'm guessing Russia would be "unhappy" with further EU expansion.

Even if there was peace there would have to be some changes to how Israel operates I would think, the racial profiling and IT searches they do at airports would have to go, and even with any peace deal would Israel give those up?
 

Devvy

Donor
Cultural and political issues aside, the EU/EEC told Morocco it couldn't join the EU because it wasn't in Europe in the 1980s or so.

So I can't see how Israel is going to manage to join given the Moroccan precedent, at least Turkey has a wedge of territory that is in Europe - not so for Israel!
 

Soundgarden

Banned
I just checked, you guys are right about Turkey not being a member of the EU, I thought they were. The list of European Union Members go as follow....

Austria
Belgium
Bulgaria
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Ireland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
Netherlands
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
United Kingdom

Turkey applied for membership, but at most is an associate member.

Israel isn't even a candidate for the future enlargement of The Union, however, there was talks about them joining sometime in the future due to cultural ties. I think my suggestions were valid. Maybe Germany(!!) can be a mediator instead.
 
If Turkey got in I would think that would consume the EU's attentions for at least 20 years afterwards to be honest and wouldn't encourage them to start looking at more nations.

As for Israel I still think that there are just to many steps to take before that became even a possiblitiy. There are massive security issues that make sense for Israel but would cause all sorts of legal issues in the EU.

What would the EU's view be on Israel's nukes? I know that the UK and France have them but given the concerns about Israel's usage policy? Or are you basing the suggestion on the Arab/Israel issues including Iran being over with before this?
 
Given how hard the EU pushed into Eastern Europe and let in countries that still have significant issues a brawl in parliament isn't a major issue. As Joyeux puts it these things happen. While the imprisonment of the former PM is a big issue for the Ukraine (and the treatment of her) the major block to them joining is that I'm guessing Russia would be "unhappy" with further EU expansion.

Even if there was peace there would have to be some changes to how Israel operates I would think, the racial profiling and IT searches they do at airports would have to go, and even with any peace deal would Israel give those up?
Eh, the brawl thing was more to point out that they need a bit more political stability, the economics are more important. (forgot to mention economy for Turkey, but that would be a third point against them joining for now) IMO, there should be preliminary trade & economic agreements with candidate countries and investment from the EU to help them get their GDP at a decent level. No nation should be allowed to join the EU with less than 50% of the overall EU GDP/capita, which means that Romania & Bulgaria shouldn't be members yet either.

Cultural and political issues aside, the EU/EEC told Morocco it couldn't join the EU because it wasn't in Europe in the 1980s or so.

So I can't see how Israel is going to manage to join given the Moroccan precedent, at least Turkey has a wedge of territory that is in Europe - not so for Israel!
There's a counter precedent of sorts, geographically speaking Cyprus is Asiatic.
 
If Turkey got in I would think that would consume the EU's attentions for at least 20 years afterwards to be honest and wouldn't encourage them to start looking at more nations.

As for Israel I still think that there are just to many steps to take before that became even a possiblitiy. There are massive security issues that make sense for Israel but would cause all sorts of legal issues in the EU.

What would the EU's view be on Israel's nukes? I know that the UK and France have them but given the concerns about Israel's usage policy? Or are you basing the suggestion on the Arab/Israel issues including Iran being over with before this?
Most of those security issues would probably be solvable once the Palestinian situation has been solved, presuming that it ever gets solved.

As for the nukes that officially don't exist...they would probably need to admit their existence and sign the NPT. And once in the EU Iran would have to be not just suicidally stupid, but utterly and totally suicidally stupid since the EU has a similar clause as NATO article 5.
OK, just checked the Consolidated Treaty of the EU, apparently it says:

"The Union and its Member States shall act jointly in a spirit of solidarity if a Member State is
the object of a terrorist attack or the victim of a natural or man-made disaster. The Union shall
mobilise all the instruments at its disposal, including the military resources made available by the
Member States, to:" So not explicitly war, but since it does include "terrorist attack" & man-made disaster, I wouldn't take any chances if I were Iran.
 
Eh, the brawl thing was more to point out that they need a bit more political stability, the economics are more important. (forgot to mention economy for Turkey, but that would be a third point against them joining for now) IMO, there should be preliminary trade & economic agreements with candidate countries and investment from the EU to help them get their GDP at a decent level. No nation should be allowed to join the EU with less than 50% of the overall EU GDP/capita, which means that Romania & Bulgaria shouldn't be members yet either.

There's a counter precedent of sorts, geographically speaking Cyprus is Asiatic.

I can see your view about the economic concerns, is it Hungary that's a major software piracy issue. I remember the being in a Microsoft security talk and it mentioned one of the new eastern countries being a major issue and the government there doing nothing to stop it.

To be honest I think the whole push into eastern Europe was to bring the nations into the EU bloc and away from Russia. That's why I think the Ukraine won't without a significant shift.
 
Most of those security issues would probably be solvable once the Palestinian situation has been solved, presuming that it ever gets solved.

As for the nukes that officially don't exist...they would probably need to admit their existence and sign the NPT. And once in the EU Iran would have to be not just suicidally stupid, but utterly and totally suicidally stupid since the EU has a similar clause as NATO article 5.
OK, just checked the Consolidated Treaty of the EU, apparently it says:

"The Union and its Member States shall act jointly in a spirit of solidarity if a Member State is
the object of a terrorist attack or the victim of a natural or man-made disaster. The Union shall
mobilise all the instruments at its disposal, including the military resources made available by the
Member States, to:" So not explicitly war, but since it does include "terrorist attack" & man-made disaster, I wouldn't take any chances if I were Iran.

The question is Israel considers racial profiling at the airports as an acceptable evil, now I can understand why they do, but would they give it up?

In terms of the nukes there's also the question of their usage policy, I realise that they maybe sabre rattling but several senior figures haven't been shy about floating a first use against Iran. As for Iran's response to Israel joining the EU, if the current forces against them aren't enough I can't see the EU being any more of a deterrent.
 

ccdsah

Donor
Just a thought, not to start a fight or anything but I'm not sure if the security arrangements that Israel has would be acceptable to the EU. Could they avoid the Shengan free travel system? (I''m sure that's the wrong spelling), and the EU human rights would have a long list of issue's.

I can't see this outside ASB to be honest.

Not all EU members are Schengen members (Romania, Bulgaria aren't)
 
Not all EU members are Schengen members (Romania, Bulgaria aren't)

But wasn't that more a concern of the other countries of a large influx of Romanians and Bulgarians moving into the rest of Europe. Those countries are also two of the not really ready to be in the EU but are in any section. Honestly I'm not sure how they work out who it applies to?

The other point is would Israel want to join if it affected their ties to the US. How would membership alter the views of those supporting Israel in America.
 
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