AHC: Islamic Japanese Daimyo Clan

GameBawesome

GameBawesome

Challenge: There have been Daimyo clans that has been Christian, and Buddhist, but what if an Islamic clan?

The challenge is to create a Japanese Daimyo clan that converts to Islam. They don’t have to survive to the present day, they just have to exist in a moment between 600s to 1700s, you can make the Clan survive to the present day if you want.
 

Monter

You need either a large Islamic presence in China and/or Korea or a Islamic trading power interested in reaching Japan just like the Portuguese.
 

John7755 يوحنا

Perhaps Islam can arrive into Japan via Vietnam? In otl, Islam had become dominant among the Malay Champa peoples during the later Middle Ages and became a focal point of wars in Cambodia and Vietname between Islamic Malay Cham and the Vietnamese and the Khmer state. These wars in Southeast Asia were framed explicitly as religious wars, with the Cham wishing certainly to propagate Islam across the region and further promote Cham dominance in the region while the Vietnamese and Khmer sought to eradicate Islam from their respective realms and destroy the Cham presence in Southeast Asia. Perhaps, the Champa state is able to gain some sort of victory in the region by asserting Islam more effectively in Southern Vietnam and likewise push north and Islam at least becomes a minority in northern parts of Vietnam and funnels into China by sea in the south. This then proliferates northeast into Japan, perhaps to Okinawa where the local leaders convert to Islam and through here some Daimyo in Kyushu convert to Islam out of interest for the new religion's ties to certain trade routes in the south and of its assertions in theology.
 

Admiral Fischer

Banned
John7755 يوحنا said:
Perhaps Islam can arrive into Japan via Vietnam? In otl, Islam had become dominant among the Malay Champa peoples during the later Middle Ages and became a focal point of wars in Cambodia and Vietname between Islamic Malay Cham and the Vietnamese and the Khmer state. These wars in Southeast Asia were framed explicitly as religious wars, with the Cham wishing certainly to propagate Islam across the region and further promote Cham dominance in the region while the Vietnamese and Khmer sought to eradicate Islam from their respective realms and destroy the Cham presence in Southeast Asia. Perhaps, the Champa state is able to gain some sort of victory in the region by asserting Islam more effectively in Southern Vietnam and likewise push north and Islam at least becomes a minority in northern parts of Vietnam and funnels into China by sea in the south. This then proliferates northeast into Japan, perhaps to Okinawa where the local leaders convert to Islam and through here some Daimyo in Kyushu convert to Islam out of interest for the new religion's ties to certain trade routes in the south and of its assertions in theology.
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Christian merchants could supply firearms and provide access to the European trade network, Cham people do not have such advantages.
 

John7755 يوحنا

TC9078 said:
Yes, actually. Buddhism was brought to Japan along with things like writing, architecture, food, art, and all the other stuff brought over from China.
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Surely, but does the Cham not possesses any items for Japan, especially if said peoples assert dominance over much of Vietnam. There at least will be possible trade goods coming from Hindustan and the Indian Ocean to bring.
 
Death's Little Helper

Death's Little Helper

John7755 يوحنا said:
Surely, but does the Cham not possesses any items for Japan, especially if said peoples assert dominance over much of Vietnam. There at least will be possible trade goods coming from Hindustan and the Indian Ocean to bring.
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Trade with the Islamic Malay states for spices, tropical wood, and other goods could be very profitable. So I can see this as a possibility.
 

Nivek

Admiral Fischer said:
Certainly not during the Warring Period.
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John7755 يوحنا said:
Why not? Also, is every single state in Japan at war? Certainly there would be some benefit at least to a state remaining at peace for a time and joining the wars engulfing Japan whence they convert to Islam.
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Even with Bad trade, the Warring States is the best period Islam could expand in japan, during the fatalism japan have, the religion could found adept among the militant shinto(pagans) and buddhist(they're pagan too, isn't it?) roaming japan.
 

Admiral Fischer

Banned
John7755 يوحنا said:
Why not? Also, is every single state in Japan at war? Certainly there would be some benefit at least to a state remaining at peace for a time and joining the wars engulfing Japan whence they convert to Islam.
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Western firearms and European trade network is all you need when rivaling lords are knocking your castle's door.

The propagation of Christianity was possible mainly because of such a dire situation - the general breakdown of the central authority meant Kyoto couldn't raise a finger to persecute let alone discriminate Christianity. Meanwhile, for the regional lords, conversion to Christianity provided European favors in trading. Once that was no longer necessary, with the central authority being no longer a joke, they abandoned Christianity en masse. For serfs it's different story - a wholly another story than what we're talking about.
 

Admiral Fischer

Banned
GameBawesome said:
Trading with the Portuguese didn’t stop it the Sengoku Jidai, and it introduced the Arquebus and Christianity.

Maybe a Daimyo clan is introduced to Islam, and is genuinely faithful to it, and wanting to spread the Religion all over Japan
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So how many Daimyos remained faithful to Christianity when persecution came? One? Two?
 
kasumigenx

kasumigenx

Actually Luzon was turning Muslim during the 16th century when the Spanish came, so it is possible for Muslim missionaries to come to Japan, I might tackle it on my No Charles V timeline.
 

Arkenfolm

Successful Mongol conquest of at least part of Japan, and a Hui, Turk, or other Mongol lord and his followers gets a powerbase in Japan and persists for a few decades/centuries, just like in Korea a few noble families descended from Central Asian and Hui immigrants mostly during the Mongol Empire/Yuan. Likely there will be at least a few thousand Muslims just like in Korea in this time.
 
Koprulu Mustafa Pasha

Koprulu Mustafa Pasha

Gone Fishin'
GameBawesome said:
Challenge: There have been Daimyo clans that has been Christian, and Buddhist, but what if an Islamic clan?

The challenge is to create a Japanese Daimyo clan that converts to Islam. They don’t have to survive to the present day, they just have to exist in a moment between 600s to 1700s, you can make the Clan survive to the present day if you want.
Click to expand...

Malay or Chinese Muslim merchants come in contact with the Daimyo clan. There are some contacts. Then the Ottomans are successful in ousting the Portuguese from Malacca but not from the Moluccas or Chinese and Japanese markets. The Ottomans come in contact with the Japanese and offer military aid if they oust the Portuguese. Seeing it as the same as the Muslim Chinese and the Malay merchants the Daimyo convert. The Ottomans do not intervene much in Japanese affairs other than offering weapons and artillery to the converted/Japanese allies. The Japanese will not see it as an outside threat (that is assuming the rulers of China are non-Muslim as well). Islam becomes at most 5-9% of the Japanese population but with its Japanese identity.
 
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