AHC: Islamic Japan

As much as I hate being the "this won't happen" guy, a Muslim Iberia would likely mean relatively little sea-faring by Iberian Muslim polities. The whole idea behind Portuguese and Spanish sea-faring was to bypass Muslim states to get to India. With a Muslim India, there'll still be some use to bypassing other Muslim states (cutting out the middleman, so to speak), but it'll be far less. Which means it's unlikely that the Muslim equivalents of the Portuguese Jesuits will be active in Japan.

Why would they want to bypass them less?

Pragmatically speaking, having direct access is useful.
 
As much as I hate being the "this won't happen" guy, a Muslim Iberia would likely mean relatively little sea-faring by Iberian Muslim polities. The whole idea behind Portuguese and Spanish sea-faring was to bypass Muslim states to get to India. With a Muslim India, there'll still be some use to bypassing other Muslim states (cutting out the middleman, so to speak), but it'll be far less. Which means it's unlikely that the Muslim equivalents of the Portuguese Jesuits will be active in Japan.

Agreeing with what the last two people said. As well, this only works if Muslims control the trade routes. With a surviving Byzantine Empire and a heavily divided Egypt...
 
Agreeing with what the last two people said. As well, this only works if Muslims control the trade routes. With a surviving Byzantine Empire and a heavily divided Egypt...

The Byzantine Empire doesn't really control the trade routes, just profit from them.

Depending on how big it is, but if it doesn't control Egypt . . .
 

NothingNow

Banned
Why would the Muslim Japanese adopt the Hijab, I mean even IOTL it start becoming anywhere near as Universal as it is until the modern era, and even then their were quite a few Muslim polities in which most women did'nt wear them.

They would probably develop some sort of head-covering. Probably something very intricate and flashy, thus defeating the spirit of the Hijab, but they'd still do it (and the more intricate the better.)

It'd be a silk garment with a nice pattern, possibly close to a Dupatta or Tudung, but with a nicer cut, and in a shape that a hat could easily be worn with (like a Sugegasa or something,) which would be useful in the rain.
 
They would probably develop some sort of head-covering. Probably something very intricate and flashy, thus defeating the spirit of the Hijab, but they'd still do it (and the more intricate the better.)

It'd be a silk garment with a nice pattern, possibly close to a Dupatta or Tudung, but with a nicer cut, and in a shape that a hat could easily be worn with (like a Sugegasa or something,) which would be useful in the rain.

Why would they?
 

NothingNow

Banned
Why would they?

They're the Japanese. They love intricate pieces of clothing for formal wear and intricate rules for things (seriously go look at what goes in to putting on a women's kimono, and then things like tea ceremony, Ikebana and other upper-class pursuits.)
If you aren't supposed to be showing hair, and intricate hair styles that go with it, fancy head gear seems a reasonable solution to the problem of expressing both status and piety. Providing an extra bit of protection in the rain and some extra shade would really just be an added bonus.
 
They're the Japanese. They love intricate pieces of clothing for formal wear and intricate rules for things (seriously go look at what goes in to putting on a women's kimono, and then things like tea ceremony, Ikebana and other upper-class pursuits.)
If you aren't supposed to be showing hair, and intricate hair styles that go with it, fancy head gear seems a reasonable solution to the problem of expressing both status and piety. Providing an extra bit of protection in the rain and some extra shade would really just be an added bonus.

Put like that it makes sense, though I think that it would probably only be an upper class thing (kind of like Kimono's where) with the poor only wearing them on limited occasions.
 
sohei2.jpg


Speaking of head coverings, these guys would be the greatest enemies that the Islamifying forces would face.
 
As to why I was saying Muslim Indonesia rather than Muslim Iberia, Indonesia has the very important advantage of being able to get there a lot sooner. To have Islam succeed in Japan it'd be important to have it arrive before Buddhism and Confucianism start sinking deep roots. The first Muslims arrived in Indonesia very early and there was a Muslim merchant community in Korea in the 700's (that later got assimilated and disappeared). If you strengthen that you can have a chance for Islam in Japan to hang on. It'll take a lot of luck of course, but I think the earlier Islam hits Japan the easier it'd be to hang on.

Hurting Confucianism in general would be helpful as would slowing Buddhism's spread into China.
 
Wow, the photo is brilliant.

With the Japanese love of art, what would happen to the 'no images of the Prophet' rule?
 
As to why I was saying Muslim Indonesia rather than Muslim Iberia, Indonesia has the very important advantage of being able to get there a lot sooner. To have Islam succeed in Japan it'd be important to have it arrive before Buddhism and Confucianism start sinking deep roots.

Buddhism arrived in Japan in the 5th century (officially in the 6th century), furthermore Buddhism (along with Shinto) became ingrained starting in the 8th century when Monastaries became center of political power and even had their own armies.

Islam did not became powerful and influential outside of the Middle-East until the 8th century and while their were some Muslims who'd visted the area since then, Islam did not start to gain followers in Indonesia until sometime between the 11th and 12th centuries, with it not becoming a major religion of Sumatra until around the 13th century and in the region overall until the 16th century.
 
Buddhism arrived in Japan in the 5th century (officially in the 6th century), furthermore Buddhism (along with Shinto) became ingrained starting in the 8th century when Monastaries became center of political power and even had their own armies.

Since all of the earliest written records name a 6th century arrival, we should probably go with that.
 
Since all of the earliest written records name a 6th century arrival, we should probably go with that.

According to the Book of Liang, several monks went to Japan in the mid 5th century.

That said I would'nt be surprised if it arrived earlier than that, as afterall arrival and permanence are'nt the same thing.
 
According to the Book of Liang, several monks went to Japan in the mid 5th century.

That said I would'nt be surprised if it arrived earlier than that, as afterall arrival and permanence are'nt the same thing.

Uh, if you're talking about Hui Shen, then that is 6th century.

EDIT: According to Wiki. Couldn't find other references.

EDIT: Okay, so it turns out Hui Shen's voyages did go as far back as the late 5th century, but his descriptions are a bit fanciful. Yes, he describes visiting Fusang, commonly thought to be Japan, but he also describes a country inhabited only by breastless women, so forgive me for doubting he actually went there. But I guess I might have come off a bit strongly.
 
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