AHC: Islamic Europe and Americas, Christian Middle East+Indonesia+North Africa+Central Asia

Yeah cause Islam will want Mecca anyway you look at it. So, make Islam merely a sect of Christianity then you can have your challenge. I don't see another way.

Unless you'd let me cheat here.

Islam gets Mecca the way Catholics have the Vatican. It's a holy city with religious and international protection.

Christianity stands strong or later pushes back Islam after it has conquered Europe. There by, Islam dominates Europe, has holy protection in Mecca and eventually rules the Americas. While Christianity spreads through the rest of the Middle East, North Africa, Central Asia and Indonesia.

Any thoughts?
 
@Happers Intruiging, and I hate to shut it down, but if Christian forces conquered Europe, why is Europe Muslim 0_o?

I'll be honestly didn't think it all the way though. What if the Ummyads were more stable and were able to conquer France and the rest of Europe. But the Byzantines stand strong while the Ummyads are doing an Islamic inquisition of some kind in Europe, basically forcing Christians to convert. Byzantium ignores Europe and instead go south in the hope of conquering Mecca to crush Islam. Byzantium has a few hundred years of war, conquers the Muslim world (as we know it) converts them but the Ummyads (or what ever alternate Caliphate exists) and Byzantines come to an agreement to not destroy Mecca. How? I don't know.

But Europe is Muslim after a few generations no one knows the Islamic style inquisition happened. The Byzantines or who ever replaces them Christianized the Middle East and North Africa.

That's all I got.
 
Huh. It seems I was wrong. Maybe there was a second way...

Let's both be honest though, yours is more realistic. Make Muhammad be mistaken for a Christian and his message a heresy of Christianity.

The only think of doing this is by instead of Muhammad seeking acceptance from the Jews in the early years of his religion, instead he seeks acceptance from the Christians, specifically since we are talking about 7th century Arabia it would be the Copts or the Nestorians. Maybe even both.
 
Adding on to that, maybe the Caliphate dodges Byzantine lands out of respect and ovreruns Africa and western Europe?

Exactly that's what I was saying. The Caliphate ignores the Byzantines out of respect or lack of military or naval superiority etc.

Which did happen it our timeline so it's not like I'm too far off.
 
I mean a bigger version of that. As in, they are permitted land to settle in Egypt, and don't touch any other byzantine lands. Byzantium carries on killing Sassanids. OTL, caliphate took everything south of anatolia and somethings east from byzantium.
 
I mean a bigger version of that. As in, they are permitted land to settle in Egypt, and don't touch any other byzantine lands. Byzantium carries on killing Sassanids. OTL, caliphate took everything south of anatolia and somethings east from byzantium.

Ah okay, I get were your going. In this timeline the Sassanids are seen as a bigger threat then the Rashidun Caliphate. So the Byzantines are actually friendly to them as they have a common enemy in the Sassanids.

I mean it would make sense, the early Muslims were nothing more then Arab war bands using spears, old swords and if they are lucky had armor. While the Sassanids were a professional battle harden army.
 
Yeah cause Islam will want Mecca anyway you look at it. So, make Islam merely a sect of Christianity then you can have your challenge. I don't see another way.

Unless you'd let me cheat here.

Islam gets Mecca the way Catholics have the Vatican. It's a holy city with religious and international protection.

Christianity stands strong or later pushes back Islam after it has conquered Europe. There by, Islam dominates Europe, has holy protection in Mecca and eventually rules the Americas. While Christianity spreads through the rest of the Middle East, North Africa, Central Asia and Indonesia.

Any thoughts?

I don't gwt why everyone is so obssesed with keeping Mecca. Its not like Islam would simply implode i its holy cities fall to non-Muslim power. It would have adapt such as other religions did, when they were confronted with great political upheavels. The best example here is ofcourse Judaism but even Christianity and Buddhism have lost their holy cities and the early centers of their religion.
 
I don't gwt why everyone is so obssesed with keeping Mecca. Its not like Islam would simply implode i its holy cities fall to non-Muslim power. It would have adapt such as other religions did, when they were confronted with great political upheavels. The best example here is ofcourse Judaism but even Christianity and Buddhism have lost their holy cities and the early centers of their religion.

See but Mecca is different, because of the Kaaba. Muslims are expected to make a Hajj or Migration to Mecca at least once in their lives. If a non-Islamic government ruled Mecca then they will likely try to stop Hajj. Unless, they take advantage of it and it's commercial use. Anyone who ruled Mecca can make a lot of money from exploiting Muslims.

So actually, never mind Christians would probably just take Mecca and exploit Muslims during Hajj.
 
See but Mecca is different, because of the Kaaba. Muslims are expected to make a Hajj or Migration to Mecca at least once in their lives. If a non-Islamic government ruled Mecca then they will likely try to stop Hajj. Unless, they take advantage of it and it's commercial use. Anyone who ruled Mecca can make a lot of money from exploiting Muslims.

So actually, never mind Christians would probably just take Mecca and exploit Muslims during Hajj.
I know of the religious significance of Kaaba and the Hajj, but there are several reasons why Islam would do fine even without Mecca:
1st the vast majoity of Muslims don't attend the Hajj (even fewer did in the past)
2nd Islam is pretty relaxed about the Five Pillars (not being able to travel to Mecca is a valid excuse)
3rd lile adherents of all religions muslims can come up with loopholes
4th Judaism was once much more -focused on the Temple than Islam ever was on the Kaaba but still survived the destruction of it and hundreds of years of diaspora (ofcourse it changed because of it)
 
I know of the religious significance of Kaaba and the Hajj, but there are several reasons why Islam would do fine even without Mecca:
1st the vast majoity of Muslims don't attend the Hajj (even fewer did in the past)
2nd Islam is pretty relaxed about the Five Pillars (not being able to travel to Mecca is a valid excuse)
3rd lile adherents of all religions muslims can come up with loopholes
4th Judaism was once much more -focused on the Temple than Islam ever was on the Kaaba but still survived the destruction of it and hundreds of years of diaspora (ofcourse it changed because of it)

Fairs points, you're not wrong. I wonder what would happen to Mecca though under Christian rule.
 

Deleted member 97083

Umayyads are more willing to used Iberian converso troops, and conquer France in the late 900s. Meanwhile, under 2-3 great rulers, the Byzantine Empire uses its vast resources to expand into the Middle East and restore the eastern borders under Trajan.

The two rising powers briefly form an alliance against the Abbasids and Holy Roman Empire. After the Byzantines and Umayyads split up the Holy Roman Empire, the Byzantines decline somewhat until they lose most of their European territory other than Greece, while retaining the militarized new territories in the Middle East. The lost European territories go to the Umayyads and the alliance is broken.

An Alexander-like Byzantine Emperor expands into Persia and Central Asia using Pecheneg and Cuman mercenaries to supplement the Byzantine army. With Greeks from overpopulated Anatolia settling throughout the new Byzantine Empire of the entire Middle East, and a series of emperors having established a stable dynastic succession, even these expanded territories remain stable.

Time passes and the Islamized Franks conquer the Anglo-Saxons, and Islamized "Holy Roman Empire" launches holy war into the Baltic Sea. Pagans and Catholics convert to Islam.

The Byzantines Christianize much of their territory, which already had significant Christian minorities. Indian Ocean traders convert to Christianity, so Indonesia either becomes Christian, or remains pagan until the colonial era.

During the colonial era, the Orthodox Byzantines instead of the Muslim Franks get to Indonesia first. However, the majority of America is colonized by Andalusians, Muslim Franks, and Muslim Saxons.

North Africa? The Byzantine empire can decline, then have a resurgence in the age of gunpowder, as a sort of alternate Ottoman Empire, conquering North Africa as Barbary states to attack Muslim Rum/Europe.
 
Well, Muhammad supposedly sent an offer of conversion to the Persians and the Byzantines before he went on his conquering spree. Maybe in TTL Heraclius (I think he was the emperor at the time) accepted and converted, then spread the religion to the rest of Europe through either proslytising or conquest.

Meanwhile the areas under Byzantine control in the East (Egypt, the Levant and bits of North Africa mostly) cling even tighter to their Christianity in resistance, then revolt and gain independence at some point. Then they later on spread Christianity into Persia and Arabia, somehow?
 
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Well, Muhammad supposedly sent an offer of conversion to the Persians and the Byzantines before he went on his conquering spree. Maybe in TTL Heraclius (I think he was the emperor at the time) accepted and converted, then spread the religion to the rest of EuropE through either proslytising or conquest.

Meanwhile the areas under Byzantine control in the East (Egypt, the Levant and bits of North Africa mostly) cling even tighter to their Christianity in resistance, then revolt and gain independence at some point. Then they later on spread Christianity into Persia and Arabia, somehow?

Oh yeah! I completely forgot about that. Wow, now my answer really seems unnecessarily complicated.
 

Deleted member 97083

Meanwhile the areas under Byzantine control in the East (Egypt, the Levant and bits of North Africa mostly) cling even tighter to their Christianity in resistance, then revolt and gain independence at some point. Then they later on spread Christianity into Persia and Arabia, somehow?
Those areas were the most easily settled, and most heavily settled by Arabs. If the Byzantines fall, the Levant and Egypt are not going to remain Christian without extreme circumstances.
 
Those areas were the most easily settled, and most heavily settled by Arabs. If the Byzantines fall, the Levant and Egypt are not going to remain Christian without extreme circumstances.

I'm well aware of the flaws in my suggestion, but that's all I could think of.
 
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