AHC: Ireland Wank

I've been diving back into Crusader Kings II recently, and recently I've been trying to see how far I can get with the Ua Brian family (currently, I've managed to unify Ireland, and conquer Wales, Brittany, and Scotland). Obviously, that's a computer game (and I may have given myself some...start up money, and I got supremely lucky in that both England and Scotland imploded into civil wars while I was consolidating power), but it has got me wondering: how far could Medieval Ireland have gone?

Would one of the Petty Kings been able to unify the island before the Normans invaded in 1167? If Kingdom had managed to unify, would they have been able to "reverse" history and mount invasions of Scotland/England/Wales? Assuming everything "breaks" for Ireland, how far could they have gone?
 
At the end of the day, Ireland is a marginal, economically poor island surrounded by stronger neighbors.

Early in it's history, you have the constant fighting of the Irish clans and the intercession of the Vikings. Later, the nobility is semi-Normanized but still feuding a good deal of the time.

Ireland, if it managed to inherit anywhere else, would almost certainly become the Navarre to that place's France, unless we are talking about Wales (which would just invite English/Anglo-Saxon intrigues to the Welsh nobles).

IRL, without the benefit of a human playing against computers, and without serendipitous implosions by its immediate neighbors, I don't see Ireland going very far as an independent power. By hook or by crook, it'll end up under some class of nobles exploiting what they can from Irish soil; whether those are Irishmen under the original dynasty that now lives abroad, or foreigners under a foreigner ruling over Irishmen, is ultimately immaterial.

Now, Early Modern Ireland might have been able to do better, but I don't see much variance in terms of material and military success for Medieval Ireland.

Hell, I don't even see Ireland staying united very long; the clan system, tanistry succession and the lack of unified political heritage all contribute to that. The other "fractured realms" didn't have to deal nearly as much with the ingrained fractiousness of Ireland's Christian clans; notably, Eastern Europe was lucky enough to de-tribalize via Christianity, which is how Poland and Hungary transitioned into semi-feudal and then eventually feudal societies.
 
I've always had the sneaking suspicion that a unified Ireland would eventually and (relatively) peacefully become a part of the UK just through royal marriages alone. A unified Ireland in the 1100s ends up looking like Scotland today, with a nationalist bent but pretty happy within the UK.
 
At the end of the day, Ireland is a marginal, economically poor island surrounded by stronger neighbors.

Early in it's history, you have the constant fighting of the Irish clans and the intercession of the Vikings. Later, the nobility is semi-Normanized but still feuding a good deal of the time.

Ireland, if it managed to inherit anywhere else, would almost certainly become the Navarre to that place's France, unless we are talking about Wales (which would just invite English/Anglo-Saxon intrigues to the Welsh nobles).

IRL, without the benefit of a human playing against computers, and without serendipitous implosions by its immediate neighbors, I don't see Ireland going very far as an independent power. By hook or by crook, it'll end up under some class of nobles exploiting what they can from Irish soil; whether those are Irishmen under the original dynasty that now lives abroad, or foreigners under a foreigner ruling over Irishmen, is ultimately immaterial.

Now, Early Modern Ireland might have been able to do better, but I don't see much variance in terms of material and military success for Medieval Ireland.

Hell, I don't even see Ireland staying united very long; the clan system, tanistry succession and the lack of unified political heritage all contribute to that. The other "fractured realms" didn't have to deal nearly as much with the ingrained fractiousness of Ireland's Christian clans; notably, Eastern Europe was lucky enough to de-tribalize via Christianity, which is how Poland and Hungary transitioned into semi-feudal and then eventually feudal societies.

True. Admittedly, I don't know much about Medieval History well, anywhere (let alone Ireland) besides what I've gleaned from CKII. If an independent/strong Ireland isn't possible in the Medieval Era, what would an Early Modern successful Ireland look like?
 
Medevial Ireland had around a million people, comparable to Scotland really. Add in a small sea and country between it and its rivals and richer more tempting targets on the continent and a strong enough dynasty (starting with the unifiers of the country of course) could well maintain independence. Possibly even grab some islands and develop some economic niche.
 
True. Admittedly, I don't know much about Medieval History well, anywhere (let alone Ireland) besides what I've gleaned from CKII. If an independent/strong Ireland isn't possible in the Medieval Era, what would an Early Modern successful Ireland look like?

Oh, by that I mean economically better off, as in less fucked over by the Tudors. Early Modern Ireland was not going to realistically gain united independence before the English Revolution, and even then the English would eventually want to meddle across St. George's Channel.

I think the best outcome for Ireland in the Early Modern period would be England staying Catholic and the Irish Parliament becoming entrenched, or otherwise the spread of non-radical Irish Protestantism among the Irish elites, allowing said elites to keep their lands out of the English power structure.

Ireland is not exactly in the best geopolitical situation; even with a population the same size as Scotland's, the English are a constant threat, and English foreign policy would demand control over St. George's Channel as a matter of security.

To quote someone from EdT's The Bloody Man, Ireland keeps running into the geopolitical trap of being Ireland.
 
Medevial Ireland had around a million people, comparable to Scotland really. Add in a small sea and country between it and its rivals and richer more tempting targets on the continent and a strong enough dynasty (starting with the unifiers of the country of course) could well maintain independence. Possibly even grab some islands and develop some economic niche.

So, basically, the island would need to be unified sometime around the Norman conquest of England, which would at the same time have to go sideways (or, at least, wreck the country more) in order to England from getting ideas. What would happen to Scotland in this scenario?
 
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