AHC : Institute Examinated Inheritance.

GdwnsnHo

Banned
This can be in any polity that you want to create and leave in existence.

The challenge is to institute and maintain for a period greater than 300 years, a consistent Examination system that determines who is the most qualified in the dynasty to lead the family (and as such in many places, the country) and have that completely respected, or any obstructions unsuccessful.

The Examinations can be varied - but some elements of Military Strategy, Language, and Economics (or what would be equivalent) must be involved - additional inclusions (utterly optional) could be blood tests, chastity, theology, etc.
 

jahenders

Banned
That's a challenge because there will always be scheming.

That being said, you could have a system where a council of ministers picks the new king when the old one dies. The council gives some exams, votes, and picks the new king, but they'd essentially have to rule until a king is picked.

As far as what the test contains, you might have:
- Tests on geography, politics, history, and religion
- A (secret) assessment of morality/piety by the candidate's priest
- A (secret) assessment of leadership by the ministers
- A (secret) assessment of presumed fertility (i.e. do they appear likely to be able to produce heirs) by a doctor
- Competition in some physical challenge (fighting with swords or staves, jousting, etc.) against trainers

The council of ministers, under the watchful eye of clergy, would each secretly tally their grades. The winner has the highest average.

If you're doing it after the king dies, you'd want to do this within a few weeks so no one else gets to comfortable running things and foreign adversaries don't have time to take advantage.

You might have the test open to children, adult grandchildren, siblings, and any living/hearty uncles/aunts of the king
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Alternately, you could have a system where a council of ministers and the king determine who is most fit while the king's still alive. In this system, that person is then pronounced as heir and begins tutelage under the king to be ready. Other than scheming, one of the big challenges would be timing. The best person to succeed the king when he's 50, may well not be the best person if he really dies at 65. So, to be effective, you almost have to have a periodic update, say every 3-5 years or if the king's health declines.

This can be in any polity that you want to create and leave in existence.

The challenge is to institute and maintain for a period greater than 300 years, a consistent Examination system that determines who is the most qualified in the dynasty to lead the family (and as such in many places, the country) and have that completely respected, or any obstructions unsuccessful.

The Examinations can be varied - but some elements of Military Strategy, Language, and Economics (or what would be equivalent) must be involved - additional inclusions (utterly optional) could be blood tests, chastity, theology, etc.
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
Alternately, you could have a system where a council of ministers and the king determine who is most fit while the king's still alive. In this system, that person is then pronounced as heir and begins tutelage under the king to be ready. Other than scheming, one of the big challenges would be timing. The best person to succeed the king when he's 50, may well not be the best person if he really dies at 65. So, to be effective, you almost have to have a periodic update, say every 3-5 years or if the king's health declines.

I'd personally prefer an option like this - but where the impetus is on the heir(s) to try and improve their qualifications. Using the UK system

- Improve their military strategy, take a test, Parliament takes note of the qualification. Would move the claimant up if they are better / if the skills are valuable (learning better jungle strategies is good and all - but why if the UK has no reason to fight in the jungle?)
- Learn a new language, get it assessed, Parliament notes it (and assess whether learning an obscure version of Urdu is REALLY worth much).

Considering that Parliament would still judge what is a useful skill - or instead of the Parliament - A College of Inheritance (who has no other real power). Older claimants with obsolete knowledge would lose value as they aged, unless they kept their skills up.

Although there is no real room for circumstantial heirs - and Biggest Army Politics could still upset the system, I think it would be interesting.
 
The biggest problem in this is that the losers could always claim that they were cheated, and in previous times, opponents of one who "passed" the test would back those who lost and claimed they were cheated.

And the army and usurpers could always justify their coups by saying that the one who passed the test really failed, and the one they are backing to the throne is the "real" winner.

In such a system, it really doesn't matter if the one who passed the test really is the most qualified. It only matters that the most powerful brokers in the kingdom could manipulate the results, even outright cheat, to make sure their candidate could be the one in power.

If the current king is alive when the test happened, he could always help his favored heir by hinting to the examiners to pass him even if he failed, to give him questions, etc.

I think the closest system that could be is the one where the monarch is elective, and the electors would examine the potential candidates in their minds, and vote who in their personal opinion passed their tests.

So in this case, one could argue that the Holy Roman Emperor passed the tests of the electors by them voting for him.

But of course, it could easily devolve into hereditary succession.
 
This can be in any polity that you want to create and leave in existence.

The challenge is to institute and maintain for a period greater than 300 years, a consistent Examination system that determines who is the most qualified in the dynasty to lead the family (and as such in many places, the country) and have that completely respected, or any obstructions unsuccessful.

The Examinations can be varied - but some elements of Military Strategy, Language, and Economics (or what would be equivalent) must be involved - additional inclusions (utterly optional) could be blood tests, chastity, theology, etc.

You're basically talking about Player of Games.
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
The biggest problem in this is that the losers could always claim that they were cheated, and in previous times, opponents of one who "passed" the test would back those who lost and claimed they were cheated.

And the army and usurpers could always justify their coups by saying that the one who passed the test really failed, and the one they are backing to the throne is the "real" winner.

In such a system, it really doesn't matter if the one who passed the test really is the most qualified. It only matters that the most powerful brokers in the kingdom could manipulate the results, even outright cheat, to make sure their candidate could be the one in power.

If the current king is alive when the test happened, he could always help his favored heir by hinting to the examiners to pass him even if he failed, to give him questions, etc.

I think the closest system that could be is the one where the monarch is elective, and the electors would examine the potential candidates in their minds, and vote who in their personal opinion passed their tests.

So in this case, one could argue that the Holy Roman Emperor passed the tests of the electors by them voting for him.

But of course, it could easily devolve into hereditary succession.

Honestly - that is all perfectly fine - that is partially how dynastic claimants would try and usurp the system, and I have no issue with that being a result.

The only issue I have is that the Electors would still require the examinations of some sort to meet the challenge. The only difference being is that the Emperor is confirmed not to be utterly incapable. (If my minimum tests are included).

Though oddly, the most qualified should be capable of taking control of the inheritance anyway. If they aren't then they have a shortcoming in the "Scheming" qualifications - and are therefore not the most qualified.

You're basically talking about Player of Games.

I had never heard of this - interesting.
 
How about the Ottoman system before Suleiman?

Basically, after the current sultan dies, the sons would engage in a civil war.

The winner of that "examination" of course is the most qualified!
 

jahenders

Banned
Agreed. The challenge would be creating a system that's clear enough and justified enough that it's not challenged. Realistically, it may be impossible to create a system that wouldn't be challenged by the losers, given the stakes.

That being said, in a weird way we have such a system except that it's for president vs. a king, and it has issues. A group of people (the electorate) review the candidates based on some (rather lame) tests (debates, speaking, etc.) and elect one. While there's always some claims of cheating, the results are generally accepted and there are very rarely civil wars and the like.

The biggest problem in this is that the losers could always claim that they were cheated, and in previous times, opponents of one who "passed" the test would back those who lost and claimed they were cheated.

And the army and usurpers could always justify their coups by saying that the one who passed the test really failed, and the one they are backing to the throne is the "real" winner.

In such a system, it really doesn't matter if the one who passed the test really is the most qualified. It only matters that the most powerful brokers in the kingdom could manipulate the results, even outright cheat, to make sure their candidate could be the one in power.

If the current king is alive when the test happened, he could always help his favored heir by hinting to the examiners to pass him even if he failed, to give him questions, etc.

I think the closest system that could be is the one where the monarch is elective, and the electors would examine the potential candidates in their minds, and vote who in their personal opinion passed their tests.
 
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