AHC: Independent Ukraine, Belarus, Poland and Baltic States Post WW1(Allied Victory)

I'm interested in an Allied WW1 Victory scenario where all these states become independent and stable.

What if Bolsheviks never take over Russia and the Preliminary Government stays in control? Would Russia still try to take back over all their former Empire land even if the treaty of Versailles recognized the independence of all those countries?
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
If the Bolsheviks never take over then nobody in the Entente would recognize the independence of Ukraine and Belarus. They might not recognize the other states either.
 
If the Bolsheviks never take over then nobody in the Entente would recognize the independence of Ukraine and Belarus. They might not recognize the other states either.

I believe they were made independent by the treaty of Brest-Litovsk, wasn't there a big enough nationalist movement in both countries to try to hold on to that independence? No one in Versailles would recognize them?
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
I believe they were made independent by the treaty of Brest-Litovsk, wasn't there a big enough nationalist movement in both countries to try to hold on to that independence? No one in Versailles would recognize them?
So you think the Entente is going to stab its ally in the back in order to help German collaborators? Belarusian nationalism was pretty much nonexistent among the common folk anyways. The Entente recognizing Ukraine or Belarus if the Provisional Government hangs on is about as plausible as America recognizing Manchukuo after it nukes Japan. Furthermore, exactly what is your scenario? The Provisional Government holding on means no Brest-Litovsk. Even if it does agree to a separate peace, it's going to revoke that agreement and rejoin the war once the Germans start losing.
 
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So you think the Entente is going to stab its ally in the back in order to help German collaborators? Belarusian nationalism was pretty much nonexistent among the common folk anyways. The Entente recognizing Ukraine or Belarus if the Provisional Government hangs on is about as plausible as America recognizing Manchukuo after it nukes Japan. Furthermore, exactly what is your scenario? The Provisional Government holding on means no Brest-Litovsk. Even if it does agree to a separate peace, it's going to revoke that agreement and rejoin the war once the Germans start losing.

Wouldn't even the provisional government have to sign something at somepoint? The Russian army was completely beaten and demoralized, the Germany army could have drove onto Moscow.

I was unaware that Ukrainian and Belorussian nationalism was so low. What about the Baltic states, would they be given independence, certainly Poland right?

Why would Russia still be rewared all this territory even though they preformed so poorly in the war?
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
Wouldn't even the provisional government have to sign something at somepoint? The Russian army was completely beaten and demoralized, the Germany army could have drove onto Moscow.

I was unaware that Ukrainian and Belorussian nationalism was so low. What about the Baltic states, would they be given independence, certainly Poland right?

Why would Russia still be rewared all this territory even though they preformed so poorly in the war?
I didn’t say Ukrainian nationalism was low. Belarusian nationalism certainly was though. If the Provisional Government held on, it must have either performed much better during the war or had stronger leadership that successfully crushed antiwar dissent. Baltic states are honestly hard to determine. Provisional Government would probably accept Polish independence in theory, but there would be severe disagreements about Poland’s ability to determine its own foreign policy and the borders between Poland and Russia. Disagreements that could lead to war. And calling it a "reward" is very dumb when Russia already controlled it before the war.
 
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