AHC: Independent German-Speaking Prussia

[Luxembourg]

What would be the best POD that would result in an independent German-speaking East Prussia?

As part of the challenge this Prussia must:

1. Have the borders of post-Versailles East Prussia.
2. Be a Republic.
3. Have repudiated their previous German identity but still speak the language (like Austria).
4. Are well regarded in the international community (no rogue states).

 

[JackLumber]

Why does it have to be a republic? Why can't it be where the hohenzollerns get exiled to after ww1 and have the rest of Germany be a republic?

 

[Luxembourg]

Well in that case it would go against point 3 since they would probably still claim to be German.

Besides, there are too few Republican Prussias.

 

[Thanosaekk]

One idea would be a very early Allied victory in WW2 (which would include Poland surviving the German attack). When Germany loses, East Prussia wouldn't be kept by any new German nation, and neither Poland or Lithuania who wouldn't have any reason to keep it as it was still ethnically German. This leaves the opportunity of a small East Prussian state in the aftermath.

 

[Anarch King of Dipsodes]

What would be the best POD that would result in an independent German-speaking East Prussia?

As part of the challenge this Prussia must:

1. Have the borders of post-Versailles East Prussia.
2. Be a Republic.
3. Have repudiated their previous German identity but still speak the language (like Austria).
4. Are well regarded in the international community (no rogue states).

The best PODs for this are in the 1500s, to prevent the union of crowns between Brandenburg and Prussia. By 1900, Prussia had been part of the combined state for 400 years, and from 1815 part of a contiguous state which included much of "mainland" Germany (after 1870, nearly all of it).

 

[Luxembourg]

One idea would be a very early Allied victory in WW2 (which would include Poland surviving the German attack). When Germany loses, East Prussia wouldn't be kept by any new German nation, and neither Poland or Lithuania who wouldn't have any reason to keep it as it was still ethnically German. This leaves the opportunity of a small East Prussian state in the aftermath.

Sounds like a good idea.

The best PODs for this are in the 1500s, to prevent the union of crowns between Brandenburg and Prussia. By 1900, Prussia had been part of the combined state for 400 years, and from 1815 part of a contiguous state which included much of "mainland" Germany (after 1870, nearly all of it).

Well yes, but by not allowing the unification of Prussia and Brandenburg the butterflies would probably prevent West Prussia from ever being split off like I say it would.

After 1918, Prussia was split from “mainland” Germany due to the Polish Corridor, and provided an alternate WW2 takes place like @Thanosaekk recomended takes place, it is very possible for Prussia to become an independent nation with a post-1900 POD.

 

[kholieken]

Prussia rewarded with Saxony at Congress of Vienna ? (in ATL with pro-Napoleon Saxony). Rhine-Westphalia rewarded to someone else (Hannover ?) which later "unify Germany" (with Germany had eastern border in Elbe)

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Red Germany scenario with East Prussia serving as "German Taiwan" under control of "Whites".

 

[Analytical Engine]

The Soviet Union doesn't advance into Central Europe as quickly, resulting in them only being able to have East Prussia as a German-speaking communist satellite.

 

[Luxembourg]

Red Germany scenario with East Prussia serving as "German Taiwan" under control of "Whites".

But then they would at least still claim to be German, not necessarily Prussian.

The Soviet Union doesn't advance into Central Europe as quickly, resulting in them only being able to have East Prussia as a German-speaking communist satellite.

But the question is would the Soviet Union really want to keep the Germans there when they could simply deport them and replace them with Poles and Russians? That’s the main obstacle for any Prussia following a Soviet Victory.

 

[JackLumber]

Well in that case it would go against point 3 since they would probably still claim to be German.

Besides, there are too few Republican Prussias.

With time I don't think it would be hard for them to have a mixed ethnic identity anchored by a shared religion and monarch, if you have them keep memelland you could have some Lithuanian in there too.
The minorities of East Prussia were typically quite content as long as they were being germanized.
Also in my experience separated Prussias are almost always republican

 

[Bison]

Why is it the consensus that Austrians have repudiated their German identity?

 

[Luxembourg]

Why is it the consensus that Austrians have repudiated their German identity?

The fact that they openly say so and get angry if you call them Germans?

I’d like the same effect to be here with Prussia.

 

[riggerrob]

WI after WW1, most of the other German states (Bavaria, Baden-Wurtemberg, etc.) try to distance themselves from War-Mongering Prussians and saddle Prussia with all the reparations?
WI other German states selling wheat, wood, iron, etc. to Prussia in return for Prussia assuming their reparations debts?
Hohenzollerns would rule a bankrupted nation that no-one wanted be seen doing business with.
Eventually, Prussia suffers high inflation and reneges on war reparations due under the Treaty of Versailles?

 

[JackLumber]

WI after WW1, most of the other German states (Bavaria, Baden-Wurtemberg, etc.) try to distance themselves from War-Mongering Prussians and saddle Prussia with all the reparations?
WI other German states selling wheat, wood, iron, etc. to Prussia in return for Prussia assuming their reparations debts?
Hohenzollerns would rule a bankrupted nation that no-one wanted be seen doing business with.
Eventually, Prussia suffers high inflation and reneges on war reparations due under the Treaty of Versailles?

No one could possibly expect a independent east Prussia to do that

 

[rommel12]

Austria was only united to Germany for less than 10 years and before that they had a different government and they were an empire, for them it is easier to say that they are not Germans and they are Austrians.

It is harder for Prussia to deny his German identity and say that they are Prussians since before the war almost 50 percent of the German Empire was Prussian and many foreign people considered Prussia and Germany as the same.

 

[CountDVB]

My guess could be that political strife after the Great War could have Germany instead pass the buck over to Prussia to try and downplay any problems of the First World War.

That or have East Prussia seperate themselves from Nazi Germany due to the rush of German leftists and other groups. They also support the Allies and maybe help prevent the birth of East Germany.

After all is said and done, maybe East Prussia becomes the sight for various Russian and Baltic peoples escaping, especially the intellectuals. This leads to a cultural enlightnment that may even try to have Prussia harken back to their roots as East German. The Prussian dialect of German would be heavily influenced by the Baltic languages and if they were truly wanting to seperate themselves from Germany, may even revamp the Gothic language for them to use.

Religion-wise, they'd either be Protestant or possible even establish an Eastern Orthodoxy church if enough people, epsecially religious figure, flee here, resulting in the Konigsberg Patriarchate.

They would be a respected nation for standing against the Nazis, taking in various peoples and intellectuals from the USSR and have its own distinct cultural identity.