AHC: Independent Fascist Hawaii

Zioneer · Oct 16, 2011

So I was reading an AAR/LP of Victoria 2 in which an independent Hawaii goes Fascist, and was indeed the first nation to go fascist, thereby making the ATL blackshirts into "Aloha/Flower Shirts".

I know this is probably ASB, but my challenge is for this to happen in a semi-serious TL. Any takers?

Plumber · Oct 16, 2011

It could happen I guess. Independent Hawaii would fare badly in a *Great Depression.

Sumeragi · Oct 16, 2011

Well, how would Hawaii retain its independence? I can easily see fascism rising during the Great Depression (damn all those yellow coolies working in the fields!), but whether it CAN be independent for another half century seems a bit hard to believe.

Enigmajones · Oct 16, 2011

Dear God Man! IRON DUKE!!!

mrsandman · Oct 16, 2011

Maybe a big war could be fought between the powers over its sovereignty and this forces the powers at be to guarantee its independence.

wormyguy · Oct 16, 2011

An anti-imperialist Democrat wins in the early 1900s and grants independence to Hawaii (or never annexes it in the first place). Hawaii is later occupied by Japan and made "independent" a la Manchukuo.

catboy637 · Oct 16, 2011

Well, as wormyguy stated, have the United States never control Hawaii. If possible, have them remain isolated from the world, and have an absolute monarchy take over.

Or, with an earlier POD, have the islands keep as independent, tribal kingdoms for centuries until Western contact, where one group is given supplies and money by one power as to take over the chain.

Kalvan · Oct 16, 2011

Sure, all you need is for either the Okhrana to murder Lenin and Trotsky in 1904 in Switzerland, or for Nicholas II to institute a gulag and send them to it. But even then, it would have to wait until the mid-Fifties at the earliest.

d32123 · Oct 16, 2011

Sumeragi said:
Well, how would Hawaii retain its independence? I can easily see fascism rising during the Great Depression (damn all those yellow coolies working in the fields!), but whether it CAN be independent for another half century seems a bit hard to believe.

Well my grandparents on my mom's side would be butterflied or rather Holocausted away in this scenario. Lovely.

black angel · Oct 16, 2011

wormyguy said:
An anti-imperialist Democrat wins in the early 1900s and grants independence to Hawaii (or never annexes it in the first place). Hawaii is later occupied by Japan and made "independent" a la Manchukuo.

Japan would not be needed, the Monarchy was over thrown by White Farmers in 1893 who formed a "Republic" with a charming constitution based off of Jim Crow Mississippi to keep the Asian majority and Native Hawaiians from voting also no freedom of press or speech and no trial by jury

the Republic was a temp job because of the re-election of Grover Cleveland who unlike Benjamin Harrison wasn't friendly to annexation, so keep William McKinley out of office, cooling your heels for 4 years is one thing, 8 or 12 is a different matter, and the window closes and you end up with a Jim Crow/apartheid state in Hawaii with some big fascist over tones

David S Poepoe · Oct 17, 2011

d32123 said:
Well my grandparents on my mom's side would be butterflied or rather Holocausted away in this scenario. Lovely.

Not all fascist movements ended with genocidal actions.

David S Poepoe · Oct 17, 2011

black angel said:
Japan would not be needed, the Monarchy was over thrown by White Farmers in 1893 who formed a "Republic" with a charming constitution based off of Jim Crow Mississippi to keep the Asian majority and Native Hawaiians from voting also no freedom of press or speech and no trial by jury

the Republic was a temp job because of the re-election of Grover Cleveland who unlike Benjamin Harrison wasn't friendly to annexation, so keep William McKinley out of office, cooling your heels for 4 years is one thing, 8 or 12 is a different matter, and the window closes and you end up with a Jim Crow/apartheid state in Hawaii with some big fascist over tones

They were hardly 'white farmers'. The kingdom was overthrown by white American businessmen. There were some Hawaiians and other races that supported the Committee for Public Safety. I think you have a good point, tho Hawaii, first as the republic and then as the territory, was governed by an oligarchy of families and firms.

black angel · Oct 17, 2011

David S Poepoe said:
They were hardly 'white farmers'. The kingdom was overthrown by white American businessmen. There were some Hawaiians and other races that supported the Committee for Public Safety. I think you have a good point, tho Hawaii, first as the republic and then as the territory, was governed by an oligarchy of families and firms.

by farmers I meant owners of very large sugar plantations

Enigmajones · Oct 17, 2011

Kalvan said:
Sure, all you need is for either the Okhrana to murder Lenin and Trotsky in 1904 in Switzerland, or for Nicholas II to institute a gulag and send them to it. But even then, it would have to wait until the mid-Fifties at the earliest.

How does that make Hawaii independent and Fascist?

Kooluk Swordsman · Oct 17, 2011

Enigmajones said:
How does that make Hawaii independent and Fascist?

Wrong thread maybe?

David S Poepoe · Oct 17, 2011

I've been thinking this over and have considered that the 'fascist' could easily be a Hawaiian government, which would be similar to Mussolini's Italy in that a Monarch was the figurehead, and had fascist tendencies but nothing much else. It would highly unlikely that there would be any attempt to racially purify the race since it just isn't going to happen. Undoubtedly, such a movement would be a backlash against American involvement in the islands, probably in protest to the Hawaiian government's policy of detente with the US, the 'Ku Aina Korps' (or whatever) wants to completely push the Americans out.