AHC:Independent California
- Thread starter DensetsuNoAudie
- Start date
Well, you need to butterfly away the Mexican war somehow, which probably involves having the Texas annexation not happen. One idea I have is that during the Texas revolution the other northern Mexican states also rebel and make California. Mega California and Texas both ally after gaining independence to protect themselves from Mexican revanchism and then neither gets annexed by anybody somehow.
So in other words, I haven't got much.
So in other words, I haven't got much.
As a native Californian, I'll follow this with great interest. Pardon the question, but does alt-California have to be independent until now or just for longer than IOTL? Either way, its inhabitants are going to have to find gold fast and invest it in a military to keep the US and Europe out pronto.
If California goes independent and shows no interest in being annexed by the US would the US really try conquering them? I see massive trade partner ship especially if their is no precept of states being annexed with Texas. And European powers don't have the power projection to be able to take it so its really mexico or US being their enemies
When are you proposing the British colony stage happening? I'm not sure the British were that interested in the west coast until they'd already lost the east, and even then it wasn't a huge priority.
Probably 1830s or 1840s, perhaps even "just" before it would otherwise have become American as per IOTL. I've seen posts in other threads quite recently which mentioned some pro-British presence amongst the 'Gold Rush' settlers, and the presence of a British naval squadron that could conceivably have got there in time to pre-empt the Americans.
Or maybe a bit earlier, although still after the Napoleonic Wars & the 'War of 1812'. Maybe Britain gets into an argument with Spain and therefore decides to support Mexican independence but takes at least the northern & central parts of Upper California (claimed for England by Sir Francis Drake, long ago, after all) -- which Mexcio wasn't actually doing much with yet, after all -- as the price of this aid?
H'mm, in a 'British California' TL, do the British settlements further north along the coast still join Canada or do they link up with California instead? How does the existence of British California affect matters in the southern parts of Oregon Country?
HeavyWeaponsGuy
Banned
Who do you think is going to be the majority of the settler base of California? Americans of course, especially after the Gold Rush happens. And when the Americans come, pretty soon after they'll petition the US government for annexation. And really, what sitting US government of any party would willingly deny itself the chance for access to the Pacific Ocean? California remaining Mexican is possible with some tweaks, but an independent California and a strong United States in the 19th century are two things that likely will not coexist forever.
Wilcox, has a pretty good one in Union & Liberty were the US assists Californian independence during an earlier Mexican American War at the same time that Texas became independent.
A decade later when the US annexes Texas and the US and Britain go to war over Oregon, California remains independent. It is suggested that the reason was that after Britain lost Oregon it propped up a new government in California to curb American expansion. After the Gold Rush, California becomes a rather wealthy country that despite its small population ventures into controlling Hawaii and annexes Sonora out of a balkanized Mexico. As of now, the TL just began its Great War in which California (as an ally of the UK) is at war against the US (who supports a Franco-German entante). Pretty funky.
Personally, I think the easiest way to get an independent California is to have a Mexican American war that goes awry for the US (but Mexico also looses badly). Say the US goes to War against Britain over Oregon while the War in Mexico is wrapping up.
The US already has Texas in its hands, but the situation in the occupied Mexico destabilizes to the point the US has to either withdraw with what it has (just Texas) or send in more troops and prolong the war.
The latter is not really an option as the war against Britain means the US is distracted fighting in the Great Lakes, Oregon, and the Atlantic. Part of the small force under Fremont and Kearney that established/occupied the Republic of California is called to assist in the war in Oregon.
Californio ranchers and the local militias take this as an opportunity to kick out the remaining American forces. They declare in the process a new republic, La Republica de California.
The War between the US and Britain ends up being a stupid folly that results in the same 49th parallel border (or Britain get the Columbia river border). The US would be too exhausted to attempt to take Cali again for the time being.
When the Gold Rush starts the US would then be fighting itself over slavery. By the time the US is ready to take on a new transcontinental war, California would have been independent for a full generation. And although its population would be relatively low, International interests (and perhaps even some US interests) would be against any form of annexation. As long as Cali remains friendly.
The population would be varied like OTL. And at some point California would have to establish both English and Spanish as its official languages. Asian immigration might be a tad larger than OTL, California needs the population, and traditionally Ibero integration policies tended to be more relaxed. Mormonism may or may not flourish in Cali, depending on how much it is persecuted.
If Cali plays its cards right it should ultimately enter a free trade agreement with both the US and Mexico at some point. (It could go as far as establishing a labor union as well). Some groups might think Cali is not as "independent" as they wish it to be.
A decade later when the US annexes Texas and the US and Britain go to war over Oregon, California remains independent. It is suggested that the reason was that after Britain lost Oregon it propped up a new government in California to curb American expansion. After the Gold Rush, California becomes a rather wealthy country that despite its small population ventures into controlling Hawaii and annexes Sonora out of a balkanized Mexico. As of now, the TL just began its Great War in which California (as an ally of the UK) is at war against the US (who supports a Franco-German entante). Pretty funky.
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Personally, I think the easiest way to get an independent California is to have a Mexican American war that goes awry for the US (but Mexico also looses badly). Say the US goes to War against Britain over Oregon while the War in Mexico is wrapping up.
The US already has Texas in its hands, but the situation in the occupied Mexico destabilizes to the point the US has to either withdraw with what it has (just Texas) or send in more troops and prolong the war.
The latter is not really an option as the war against Britain means the US is distracted fighting in the Great Lakes, Oregon, and the Atlantic. Part of the small force under Fremont and Kearney that established/occupied the Republic of California is called to assist in the war in Oregon.
Californio ranchers and the local militias take this as an opportunity to kick out the remaining American forces. They declare in the process a new republic, La Republica de California.
The War between the US and Britain ends up being a stupid folly that results in the same 49th parallel border (or Britain get the Columbia river border). The US would be too exhausted to attempt to take Cali again for the time being.
When the Gold Rush starts the US would then be fighting itself over slavery. By the time the US is ready to take on a new transcontinental war, California would have been independent for a full generation. And although its population would be relatively low, International interests (and perhaps even some US interests) would be against any form of annexation. As long as Cali remains friendly.
The population would be varied like OTL. And at some point California would have to establish both English and Spanish as its official languages. Asian immigration might be a tad larger than OTL, California needs the population, and traditionally Ibero integration policies tended to be more relaxed. Mormonism may or may not flourish in Cali, depending on how much it is persecuted.
If Cali plays its cards right it should ultimately enter a free trade agreement with both the US and Mexico at some point. (It could go as far as establishing a labor union as well). Some groups might think Cali is not as "independent" as they wish it to be.
If something like that happens it'll probably split into California-Deseret-Texas. The Mormons were pretty comfy in Utah and Arizona by that point and odds are they'd jump at the chance for independence.
Would California also somehow manage to pick up Baja California?
This.
HALF of all heavy shipping traffic on the West Coast goes through the ports in the San Francisco Bay. The biggest export is petroleum, surprisingly enough.
Not necessarily. One of the places the LDS considered settling before Utah was the Nueces Strip in South Texas. Negotiations were in progress in 1844 but ended when Joseph Smith was murdered. At any rate, with the Mormons general distrust of authority and ROT's lack of power to assert authority, the two seem like the perfect couple.
Avert the Mexican-American War, possibly by having Henry Clay elected President. IIRC, he was opposed to annexing Texas, which was the main immediate cause of the war. This isn't going to stop American settlers from flowing into California, something that will only increase once gold is found. At some point after the discovery of gold, the Mexican government pisses off the now large and diverse local population (maybe heavy taxes?). This prompts a revolt, probably with at least unofficial US support, which ends up with an independent California, similar to Texas.
David S Poepoe
Banned
California needs a greater population base circa 1840. Henry Bruman outlines a very plausible scenario to in his article: Sovereign California: The State's Most Plausible Alternative Scenario, in California Geographer, 1986, volume 26, p1-43.