AHC: in U.S. in 1920s, Buddhist ideas compete with Spiritualism?

And spiritualism was huge, and let's take the '20s as a representative decade. People were attempting to communicate with deceased loved ones.

AHC: Let's say in various ways, Buddhist ideas were competing with this?
 
it would be interesting to know why Buddhism in the 1920s DIDN'T make the same sort of inroads in American culture that spititualism was making.

My best guess would be that there was probably a general taboo against embracing non-Christian religions. Seances and Ouija boards, while they have attracted the ire of fundamentalists, weren't as openly contradictory of the Bible and church teachings, so were more easily domesticated. Whereas someone announcing himself to be Buddhist was pretty much saying "I reject the Bible and Christianity".

So, maybe have Christianity weakened by some cultural cataclysm, I'm thinking Scopes Multiplied By 100 here, for starters.
 

Yun-shuno

Banned
it would be interesting to know why Buddhism in the 1920s DIDN'T make the same sort of inroads in American culture that spititualism was making.

My best guess would be that there was probably a general taboo against embracing non-Christian religions. Seances and Ouija boards, while they have attracted the ire of fundamentalists, weren't as openly contradictory of the Bible and church teachings, so were more easily domesticated. Whereas someone announcing himself to be Buddhist was pretty much saying "I reject the Bible and Christianity".

So, maybe have Christianity weakened by some cultural cataclysm, I'm thinking Scopes Multiplied By 100 here, for starters.
Ouja boards and all that are stuff a lot of Christians say are demonic and a gateway to the devil and such. Divination, sorcery, and all that are stated by the bible and just how about all churches to be sin.

Really there weren't enough Asian immigrants in the Us for such ideas to take off. Have looser immigration requirements and then have a Buddhist teacher, or guru or what have you become popular with intellectuals, writers, and thinkers of the 20s.

I can see Buddhist ideas in that context being a counterweight to the materialism that comprised the 20s actually.
 
Ouja boards and all that are stuff a lot of Christians say are demonic and a gateway to the devil and such. Divination, sorcery, and all that are stated by the bible and just how about all churches to be sin.

Really there weren't enough Asian immigrants in the Us for such ideas to take off. Have looser immigration requirements and then have a Buddhist teacher, or guru or what have you become popular with intellectuals, writers, and thinkers of the 20s.

I can see Buddhist ideas in that context being a counterweight to the materialism that comprised the 20s actually.

Unless you ask in Christ's name for a cloak of protection, I agree Ouija boards are dangerous - they open a light in the darkness that attracts that with ill intent.
However, don't agree with your next sentence - I not that well versed in the Bible so took a few moments to find it but try - I Corinthians 12 1 - 11 Re: Spiritual Gifts.
 

Yun-shuno

Banned
Unless you ask in Christ's name for a cloak of protection, I agree Ouija boards are dangerous - they open a light in the darkness that attracts that with ill intent.
However, don't agree with your next sentence - I not that well versed in the Bible so took a few moments to find it but try - I Corinthians 12 1 - 11 Re: Spiritual Gifts.
Since you have implied you are a Christian we can continue this discussion over PM if you want.
 
I welcome persons of all faiths and no faiths.

Some very religious persons are open to learning about other religions, some aren't. In addition, some forms of Buddhism are more a philosophy than a religion, and this definitely opens a door.
 

Yun-shuno

Banned
I welcome persons of all faiths and no faiths.

Some very religious persons are open to learning about other religions, some aren't. In addition, some forms of Buddhism are more a philosophy than a religion, and this definitely opens a door.
I was discussing with a another member what Christians consider to be occult practices and so forth.

Any way as I said more Asian immigration, more intellectuals open to Eastern ideas and a counterculture developing than idolizes said ideas.
 
https://web2.ph.utexas.edu/~coker2/index.files/spiritualism.shtml

' . . . One of the longest lasting pseudoscientific fads, dominating for almost 70 years from the mid-1850s to the mid-1920s, has since the late 1970s experienced a major resurgence: Spiritualism.
.
.
. . . [The concept of mediumship itself can be traced all the way back to a charlatan named Edward Kelley (1555-1597); since the concept of a “spirit” was not well-established this early in the Reniassance, Kelley clamed to be communicating with angels.] . . . '
This piece is written by a University of Texas physics professor who, shall we say, takes a somewhat skeptical view.

But I didn't know that spiritualism has had such a long run of it.
 
Since you have implied you are a Christian we can continue this discussion over PM if you want.

Grew up as a Methodist, but been a Christian Spiritualist for almost thirty years. Visiting medium confirmed an unusual 'spiritual experience' I had a decade previously. I remember when at a Buddhist Temple in Thailand - a voice inside my head said - 'thou shall not pray to craven idols'!

Unfortunately, the public face to 'proof' of the afterlife is tainted by the 'show-business' environment. The ego of the 'medium' makes it too much of a performance, and becomes 'performance' led, hence can you perform is more valuable than you mediumship ability. The demand for 'communication' with the audience leads to cheating.

Dowding (of RAF fame) was a spiritualist who was mocked and derided, while in the RAF - for his comments about 'his chicks' who (he said) visited him from the great beyond.
To make an impact in the US - you would need someone in the public eye - e.g. film star to have a 'mystical experience' while out East filming, and for fans to want to learn more. In a way, similar to what happened to the Beatles with their Indian influences.
 

Yun-shuno

Banned
Grew up as a Methodist, but been a Christian Spiritualist for almost thirty years. Visiting medium confirmed an unusual 'spiritual experience' I had a decade previously. I remember when at a Buddhist Temple in Thailand - a voice inside my head said - 'thou shall not pray to craven idols'!

Unfortunately, the public face to 'proof' of the afterlife is tainted by the 'show-business' environment. The ego of the 'medium' makes it too much of a performance, and becomes 'performance' led, hence can you perform is more valuable than you mediumship ability. The demand for 'communication' with the audience leads to cheating.

Dowding (of RAF fame) was a spiritualist who was mocked and derided, while in the RAF - for his comments about 'his chicks' who (he said) visited him from the great beyond.
To make an impact in the US - you would need someone in the public eye - e.g. film star to have a 'mystical experience' while out East filming, and for fans to want to learn more. In a way, similar to what happened to the Beatles with their Indian influences.
Well then that's it.
 
Alright, I'm thinking about all the loss of life from the 'Great War' (1914-18), a human tragedy which sure seems like it could have been avoidable. For example, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle invested a lot of energy pursuing Spiritualism, because he had lost his son during the War. And also what we might call the Great Influenza (1918-19), in which actually more people died than during the War.

So, we have three possibilities:

homegrown Spiritualism in Europe and the U.S.,

specific forms of Spiritualism imported from Asia, probably Buddhism, maybe other religions. And I do like the analogy of the Beatles, and

the more philosophic aspects of Buddhism (not necessarily mutually exclusive!)
 
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what I have in mind is Buddhist ideas about accepting death,

But compared to the chance of actually talking with a deceased loved one, this doesn't compare.

and even though the vast majority of persons who present themselves as mediums are frauds, promoters, hucksters, and all the rest, there's always the hope that a certain fraction are for real.
 
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philosopher Jonathan Glover:

https://books.google.com/books?id=E... eventually become intolerably bored"&f=false
But I am not convinced that someone with a fairly constant character need eventually become intolerably bored, so long as they can watch the world continue to unfold and go on asking new questions and thinking, and so long as there are other people to share their feelings and thoughts with. Given the company of the right people, I would be glad of the chance to sample a few million years and see how it went.
The more Buddhist idea is that I would change so much over even several thousand years that I'd no longer be the original me. The whole idea of the impermanence of life. And thus feel a little bit better about death.

Maybe.

A POD might be if a Hollywood star wrote a book in the 1920s where they matter-of-factly told about how traveling in the East and exploring Buddhist thought has helped them to better accept the death of someone close to them. They could also point out that a lot of different churches believe a lot of different things, and that they don't think this is in conflict with Christianity. Americans aren't really into strict exacting church doctrine. They are much more into believing in God in general.

And this would be only about 10% of the book and then it would talk about a bunch of other stuff. Actually sounds like it would have been an interesting book.
 

Yun-shuno

Banned
The more Buddhist idea is that I would change so much over even several thousand years that I'd no longer be the original me. The whole idea of the impermanence of life. And thus feel a little bit better about death.

Maybe.

A POD might be if a Hollywood star wrote a book in the 1920s where they matter-of-factly told about how traveling in the East and exploring Buddhist thought has helped them to better accept the death of someone close to them. They could also point out that a lot of different churches believe a lot of different things, and that they don't think this is in conflict with Christianity. Americans aren't really into strict exacting church doctrine. They are much more into believing in God in general.

And this would be only about 10% of the book and then it would talk about a bunch of other stuff. Actually sounds like it would have been an interesting book.
You might be right about the general population, however the official Protestant churches won't like any uptick in such interest. Not One Bit.
 
The more Buddhist idea is that I would change so much over even several thousand years that I'd no longer be the original me. The whole idea of the impermanence of life. And thus feel a little bit better about death.

Maybe.

A POD might be if a Hollywood star wrote a book in the 1920s where they matter-of-factly told about how traveling in the East and exploring Buddhist thought has helped them to better accept the death of someone close to them. They could also point out that a lot of different churches believe a lot of different things, and that they don't think this is in conflict with Christianity. Americans aren't really into strict exacting church doctrine. They are much more into believing in God in general.

But I still think most people in the 1920s would need the heterodox dogma to bear the label "Christian", even if it had little if any connection to what Christians traditionally believe.

There is a lot that you can get away with in American spirituality if you at least style yourself as nominally Christian. Maybe if your Hollywood celebrity described his or her Buddhist-ish insights as being revealed by Jesus, it would help the medicine go down a bit better for the general public.
 
There is one AH view then I've come across - that Jesus was smuggled out of Israel after been taken down from the Cross, and went East. apparently there are texts in a Tibetan Temple of a 'learned' man from the West arriving at that time.
 
Okay here is an attempt at outlining a possible timeline.


Step 1. The Lights of Asia (OTL)

The Light of Asia, subtitled The Great Renunciation, is a book by Sir Edwin Arnold. The first edition of the book was published in London in July 1879. In the form of a narrative poem, the book endeavors to describe the life and time of Prince Gautama Siddhartha, who after attaining enlightenment became The Buddha, The Awakened One. The book presents his life, character, and philosophy, in a series of verses. It is a free adaptation of the Lalitavistara. The book became immensely popular in the United States, going through eighty editions and selling more than 500,000 copies.


Step 2. Early Zen Buddhist Teachers (OTL)

In 1893, Soyen Shaku was invited to speak at the World Parliament of Religions held in Chicago. In 1905, Shaku was invited to stay in the United States by a wealthy American couple. He lived for nine months near San Francisco, where he established a small zendo in the Alexander and Ida Russell home and gave regular zazen lessons, making him the first Zen Buddhist priest to teach in North America. Shaku was followed by Nyogen Senzaki, a young monk from Shaku's home temple in Japan.


Step 3. Replace “Birth of a Nation” with “The Lights of Asia” (POD)

Reliance-Majestic Studios was an early American movie studio in Hollywood, California, originally built around 1914 at 4516 Sunset Boulevard. Within a few years, it became the home of D. W. Griffith and Mutual Film Corporation. Some rich patron impressed by the teachings of Soyen Shaku comes up with the idea to filming „The Lights of Asia“ and helps finance the project. It becomes a groundbreaking silent epic drama film directed and co-produced by D. W. Griffith and starring Lillian Gish and released in 1915s America. Over two hours long, the film was originally presented in two parts separated by an intermission; it was the first 12-reel film in America. It depicts the the life of Prince Gautama Siddhartha. The film was a commercial success, thanks to Griffith exploration of new cinematic techniques as well as tapping into people thirst for exotic, oriental wonders on screen…..

From here we should have a much better basis to make Buddhism more common in America’s households.
 
Okay here is an attempt at

Step 3. Replace “Birth of a Nation” with “The Lights of Asia” (POD)

Reliance-Majestic Studios was an early American movie studio in Hollywood, California, originally built around 1914 at 4516 Sunset Boulevard. Within a few years, it became the home of D. W. Griffith and Mutual Film Corporation. Some rich patron impressed by the teachings of Soyen Shaku comes up with the idea to filming „The Lights of Asia“ and helps finance the project. It becomes a groundbreaking silent epic drama film directed and co-produced by D. W. Griffith and starring Lillian Gish and released in 1915s America. Over two hours long, the film was originally presented in two parts separated by an intermission; it was the first 12-reel film in America. It depicts the the life of Prince Gautama Siddhartha. The film was a commercial success, thanks to Griffith exploration of new cinematic techniques as well as tapping into people thirst for exotic, oriental wonders on screen…..

From here we should have a much better basis to make Buddhism more common in America’s households.
I still want something even more specific. That Buddhism provides at least one more tool for people to more readily accept death. And it can be brief aspects of philosophy, which almost work better. Like a Zen koan maybe.

Might sound weird. But obviously death has been a big issue through the ages, pretty much for the entire history of the human race!
 
Step 3. Replace “Birth of a Nation” with “The Lights of Asia” (POD)

In other words, "replace an America where people were happy to cheer for racist KKK lynch mobs, with an America where people were happy to find spiritual inspiration in the teachings of non-Christian, Asiatic holy men."

Okay, a bit of an oversimplification on my part, since America has a lot of different kinds of people, and the folks who cheered for the Klan probably weren't the same ones who would be into exploring eastern mysticism. But still, for a film glorifying the Buddha to be as popular in the 1920s as was Birth Of A Nation, I really think you need an invasion of extraterrestrial flying mammals, or, at the very least, a POD waaaaay before 1900.
 
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