AHC improve the Romanian military in WW 2

La Rouge Beret

La Rouge Beret

Donor
After reading several threads on how to improve the German and Italian war machines in WW II.

How could we improve the performance of the Romanian military in World War II?
 

deamy

More anti-tank guns?

If you believe von Manstein, they were the best allies Germany had, so it have to be with the equipment..
 
Albidoom

Albidoom

Yep, Equipment. Although for that I guess we need to change/improve the industrialization level of all the european axis members, which in turn with the rather limited fuel availabilities poses the question of how much mechanization the axis can sustain.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
More equipment, better equipment.

For this you probably need a bigger Romanian arms industry in the interwar years. Not sure how you get this to happen.
 

cortz#9

I don't know much about the army but I have just recently been reading up on the IAR fighter a decent plane for it's day, but could not be supplied to front line units in decent numbers because of lack of machine guns. Romania did not produce it's own MGs. It imported a copy of the Browning 30cal. MG produced in Belgium. After the Blitzkrieg of 1940 the Germans halted all exports of MGs out of Belgium this of course affected the Romanian Air Force and I imagine the Army as well. The embargo wasn't lifted until 41 when Romania joined the axis. Get the Germans to lift the embargo earlier or have the Romanians produce their own guns and this should go some ways of improving their performance in the air and on the battle field.
 

nbcman

Donor
Less damage to their oil fields in WW1 that could allow for more POL available for export. These sales of POL can allow either investment in a domestic arms industry or more foreign arms purchases in the interwar years. Maybe they could team with the Czechs to trade weapons from Skoda Works for oil?

Don't carve off Transylvania and South Dobruja. If possible, keep the SU from taking Bessarabia and Bucovina.
 

The Ubbergeek

I heard the Czechs had a good military industry - that the germans seized along Czechoslovakia, indeed. It could be a good client at least...

edit; nbcman pointed it too.
 

Uruk

The romanians did produce weapons just not enough and not geared for a war against a major power.

To better prepare them I would suggest a Government tractor subsidy scheme to mechanize the agriculture and create an automotive industry, earlier purchase of licenses for weapons production. Diversify the arms industry and purchases (Romania was almost totally dependent on the Czechs leading to new purchases becoming hard after the German occupation of that country.)
 

Uruk

I cant really see the Romanians stop Uranus no matter how well prepared they are, that would require several armored divisions with decent tanks
 
La Rouge Beret

La Rouge Beret

Donor
The idea for this thread came from Manstein's biography, Lost Victories.

So in the event that the Romanians become the equivalent of the Canadians for the Axis.

How would that assist the Germans on the Eastern Front?

So the average soldier has better equipment and a greater number of aircraft, what are the impacts?
 

kalamona

La Rouge Beret said:
The idea for this thread came from Manstein's biography, Lost Victories.

So in the event that the Romanians become the equivalent of the Canadians for the Axis.

How would that assist the Germans on the Eastern Front?

So the average soldier has better equipment and a greater number of aircraft, what are the impacts?
Click to expand...

Practically nothing. What they need is better leadership and better (motivated) manpower. Like most of the minor axis.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
kalamona said:
Practically nothing. What they need is better leadership and better (motivated) manpower. Like most of the minor axis.
Click to expand...

They needed equipment more. The Romanians are most know for their failure in the counter attack at Stalingrad. It has been quite a while since I read the book, but from memory, they had about one heavy anti-tank weapon per battalion, and closer to one per regiment. This is way below what a mid level German division had. Bravery and good leadership without anti-tank weapons don't stop T-34 in open country. Weapons are required. Now it is possible that even with an SS TOE, the Romanians would have performed poorly due to bad leaders, but we will never know for sure. And to be fair to the Romanian, the ratio of men to front was so low, I am not sure that the best Germans divisions would have slowed the attack for more than a few hours more than OTL. I would lean towards SS divisions delaying the Soviet attack for a couple of days more than OTL, but I can't support this assertion in detail.
 

KACKO

thevaliant said:
Really? Better than the Finns? (I know, I know - Co belligerents only so maybe they don't count).
Click to expand...
Well Finland was for Soviets only side show. Especially after Finland didn't (or stopped to) support German trust towards Murmansk and Leningrad. So well, Romania was better ally, its soldiers went in all the way towards Stalingrand and Caucasus. And more important due to oil fields.
 
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KACKO

BlondieBC said:
They needed equipment more. The Romanians are most know for their failure in the counter attack at Stalingrad. It has been quite a while since I read the book, but from memory, they had about one heavy anti-tank weapon per battalion, and closer to one per regiment. This is way below what a mid level German division had. Bravery and good leadership without anti-tank weapons don't stop T-34 in open country. Weapons are required. Now it is possible that even with an SS TOE, the Romanians would have performed poorly due to bad leaders, but we will never know for sure. And to be fair to the Romanian, the ratio of men to front was so low, I am not sure that the best Germans divisions would have slowed the attack for more than a few hours more than OTL. I would lean towards SS divisions delaying the Soviet attack for a couple of days more than OTL, but I can't support this assertion in detail.
Click to expand...
And actually I believe according to Axworthy in Third Axis Fourth Ally, Romanian armored division did stall Soviet attacks at Stalingrad for a bit, but needed to be reinforced (by famous by Russian patriotic mice stopped 22nd Panzer). So better equipment (Pz III and IV instead of Pz-35 and Pz-38, more AT) could help a lot.
Sure Soviets would get through sooner or later, but with better equipment initial Romanian success could be less bloody, so morale of the troops would be even higher and they could inflict bigger losses to Soviets.
Just but size of the army Romanians should have at least 3-4 tank divisions.

I believe in 1937-1938 Romanians were trying to get license rights for Czechoslovak LT-35. Which as tank hunter served in Romanian army till the end.
Romanians did produce French Renault armored carrier UE in Malaxa factory.

In 1939 Romanians were trying to order from Czechoslovakia medium tanks. At the end the opted for order of 216 T-21 tanks. But due to German occupation of Czechoslovakia, the order was never delivered or even started. Even if T-21 with its original I believe 4.7 cm gun would be in 1941 against Soviet modern tanks under gunned, 216 of them could be huge help during initial attacks. Especially when Romanians LT-35 get pretty much decimated in early summer 1941 and were not available to support another thrust into southern Ukraine.

More modern artillery would help too.

Also, Romanians were trying to get their hand on Fw 190's BMW engine which they wanted to use in their IAR 80/81 fighter planes.
 

cortz#9

It seems to me the best way to improve the Romanian military is to make an alliance with the Germans and Italians earlier. This way they'll be no interference with procurement of weapons from the Czechs or Belgium. They can maybe get a better deal on Sm79 bombers from Italy. They can also send army officers and pilots to train in Germany to improve leadership skills and tactical doctrine. Perhaps also sending their own version of the Condor Legion to SCW for combat experiance and forming a stronger bond with their Axis partners would improve their situation as well.
 

cortz#9

The IAR 80/81 with a BMW engine and cannons instead of machine guns could have turned a decent plane into a first class fighter.
 
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