AHC: Imperium Germanicum

How??
I don't think it's impossible for Teutoburg Forrest to be the foundation of an empire, but it would have to take a few generations to actually get the Germanic Tribes to warm up to some kind of unification, actually it would take a few wars. You need Arminus and his successors to capitalize on their victory by waging campaigns against the other tribes to subjugate them.
Indeed this what I am thinking, he and his successors would need to fight quite alot of wars to gobble up all the tribes, and then several more to keep it all together, because attempts at secessions will be made by local nobility/aristocracy. I do not think it's impossible tho. If he could gain the loyalty from some of the more powerful tribes through bribes, marriage, concessions, whichever works then he and his successors might be able to pull it together. It's gonna be a bloody affair tho, and is gonna need a line of very capable men in charge, but that would not be the first time in history that was needed and happened. :)

If they pull it off they are gonna need to spend quite some time integrating the different tribes and break down the tribal societies, i do not think there will be much expansion soon after the initial unification.
 
But as soon as you do not like it, you start to criticize it in a way that proves my opinion.

I dislike things enough to be critical because of their implausibility. I find the Up with the Star world to be pretty horrible, and have only read part of the timeline, but I have a high regard for Snake Featherston's judgment based on my experience talking with him.

There is nothing in this idea that was really impossible.
- Arminius persuading his allies that a more permanent alliance is better than each tribe staying on its own seems possible to me
- I've chosen Kaiser because of its origin.
- As I said above the borders I've given are everything in Europe what is not part of the Roman Empire. That does not mean that the Germanic Empire will be that big.

1) Why would they? No, seriously. WHY?

2) An origin from a culture they're not influenced by in any great degree at this point and don't WANT to be influenced by.

3) So...yeah, okay fine.

Natte said:
Indeed this what I am thinking, he and his successors would need to fight quite alot of wars to gobble up all the tribes, and then several more to keep it all together, because attempts at secessions will be made by local nobility/aristocracy. I do not think it's impossible tho. If he could gain the loyalty from some of the more powerful tribes through bribes, marriage, concessions, whichever works then he and his successors might be able to pull it together. It's gonna be a bloody affair tho, and is gonna need a line of very capable men in charge, but that would not be the first time in history that was needed and happened. :)

Which will destroy his support base, because it will bring up exactly the same hostility as was directed at the Romans, only at him. There's no motivation for them to glue together only to be subject to Arminius instead of that Roman idiot whose name I can't remember.
 

Adler

Banned
How??
I don't think it's impossible for Teutoburg Forrest to be the foundation of an empire, but it would have to take a few generations to actually get the Germanic Tribes to warm up to some kind of unification, actually it would take a few wars. You need Arminus and his successors to capitalize on their victory by waging campaigns against the other tribes to subjugate them.

Well he did so with the Markomanni empire (although the Markomanni might have attacked first). So if the Romans attacked again and again and again, there was a chance for Arminius to be recognized as a kind of supreme commander. Perhaps if he could kill Segestes and the Roman loyalists, he might have a good base.

If he could keep this post as supreme commander and then would be able to find a modus vivendi between all allied tribes, he might be able to build a dynasty. But that would not evolve into an Imperium Germanicum in his life time. He more likely would become a kind of chancellor. If he managed to introduce some kind of all tribes Thing, a kind of parliament, it would have worked.

Adler
 
Which will destroy his support base, because it will bring up exactly the same hostility as was directed at the Romans, only at him. There's no motivation for them to glue together only to be subject to Arminius instead of that Roman idiot whose name I can't remember.
That would be Varus. And I agree, which is why I said might, and also not in Arminius lifetime. His powerbase was not strong enough to keep all of Magna Germania under his thumb, infact it heavily relied on support from other rulers that would vanish the second he tried to impose himself as ruler over them, pretty much as it happened in OTL. Doesn't mean that it's impossible for him to create a stronger powerbase and set of alliances for his own tribe after the battle compared to before. However it would be up to his sucessors to try and further it, and quite frankly even tho theoretically it's possible, it's more likely for that to come crashing down the second other tribes feel threatened and form alliances. I said it was not impossible, not that it's probably, which I do not think. :)

Just so everything is clear. Like I said in the first post, I do not believe that the Battle of Teutoburg Forest and Arminius presented a likely united outcome, but rather back to how it was. And for the area to be united they would need to go through all the phases that other tribal areas had to before any kind of lasting unity could be achieved.
 
This is the whole basis for my timeline, and I appear to have succeeded in doing so, so I feel I should speak. It could work to have Arminius unite Germania more or less by force, and I had him secure the alliance of the Marcomanni to this end, and repel Germanicus to secure popular support from most tribes.

I felt it would be highly unreasonable for Germania to jump from scattered tribes to a united nation so quickly, so it instead started out as an HRE-style agglomeration, governed by a Theudanaz and a Thing of all the tribes, plagued by disunity and the occasional rebellion. Arminius then steadily expanded the greater Thing's power and essentially stirred up "proto-nationalism" to slowly bring the tribes closer together.

However, I do admit that I deliberately set up the proper conditions for Germania to unite with events and coincidences specifically placed to facilitate Germania's unification. Without these, unification would be extremely unlikely. Probably best to have Rome apply pressure continuously to turn Arminius into an "emergency dictator" of sorts.
 
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