AHC: How do you get Maximiliano and Benito Juarez to join forces and become Emperor and P. M.

With a POD no earlier than 1858/63. How can Maximiliano and Benito Juarez be made to have an agreement where they accept the creation of a Second Mexican Empire and that Benito Juarez be the first or second Prime Minister of the same?
 
I just don't see it happening, Juarez warned what he would do to collaborators when he was forced to abandon Mexico City. Maximilian did about as well as he could in getting ex-President Miramon as one of his generals and adopting the grandson of Emperor Iturbide I.

And let's face it, the Black Decree did NOT help the situation any. Nor was Napoleon III's less-than-useful support, especially pulling out the Army just when Maximilian needed it the most.

Maximilian could have made the offer but I just don't see Juarez accepting it...
 
I just don't see it happening, Juarez warned what he would do to collaborators when he was forced to abandon Mexico City. Maximilian did about as well as he could in getting ex-President Miramon as one of his generals and adopting the grandson of Emperor Iturbide I.

And let's face it, the Black Decree did NOT help the situation any. Nor was Napoleon III's less-than-useful support, especially pulling out the Army just when Maximilian needed it the most.

Maximilian could have made the offer but I just don't see Juarez accepting it...
How about if Juarez accepts a transitional position to see a Maximilian abdication and guarantee him safe passage to Vera Cruz to return to Austria and then restore of the republic. That would be the best deal Maximilian could get from Juarez. And don't forget, the French will still be gone, and the United States is still recognizing Juarez and not Maximilian.
 
How about if Juarez accepts a transitional position to see a Maximilian abdication and guarantee him safe passage to Vera Cruz to return to Austria and then restore of the republic. That would be the best deal Maximilian could get from Juarez. And don't forget, the French will still be gone, and the United States is still recognizing Juarez and not Maximilian.

Agreed that since the US is backing Juarez and not Maximilian the throne is shaky at best. The problem was that both Maximilian and Carlota were under the impression that the country truly wanted them, which they did not. And Napoleon III put massive pressure on Maximilian to accept the throne in order to then get out of Mexico as the expense was ruining France.

The whole Second Mexican Empire was a farce of monumental proportions with poor Maximilian being lied to and pressured into hasty decisions from the beginning. If he and Carlota had taken a rational look at the situation in 1865 they would have realized that this was never going to work. If Juarez made such an offer they would be well advised to take it, especially under heavy US pressure. Although Napoleon III would of course argued against it...
 
While I think Max was an alright guy, he did give land to Confederates. Just saying that now, as it does point to him having... I don't know. Rebels are good country but not another? Anyways, perhaps get some big scandal going, where it was shown the Max was lied to and was tricked, not being told he was losing his titles and ranks in Europe until after he left. While some referendums on the monarchy might be seen as a good way to go about things by some of us in the present day, I imagine their would be a lot of intimidation and difficulty in setting up polling stations down there, as well as no one believing it would be fair or recognizing the results if they were sketchy.

Does anyone know what Max thought of Juarez anyways? And I feel if there is a monarchy it just means more independence movements. I also see other Latin American countries being concerned. There would also be a rather large change to Mexican politics (I mean besides there being a king) as they would be moving form presidential elections to parliamentary ones.
 
While I think Max was an alright guy, he did give land to Confederates. Just saying that now, as it does point to him having... I don't know. Rebels are good country but not another? Anyways, perhaps get some big scandal going, where it was shown the Max was lied to and was tricked, not being told he was losing his titles and ranks in Europe until after he left. While some referendums on the monarchy might be seen as a good way to go about things by some of us in the present day, I imagine their would be a lot of intimidation and difficulty in setting up polling stations down there, as well as no one believing it would be fair or recognizing the results if they were sketchy.

Does anyone know what Max thought of Juarez anyways? And I feel if there is a monarchy it just means more independence movements. I also see other Latin American countries being concerned. There would also be a rather large change to Mexican politics (I mean besides there being a king) as they would be moving form presidential elections to parliamentary ones.


Not all Latin countries,Brazil would be ok with a Mexican monarchy,even more because theyer monarchs are cousins.
 
Maybe if they had a common enemy of some kind show up and start causing major trouble in Mexico that would make them, at least temporarily, join forces to fight against.

The problem with that is, I can't think of any possible third parties to the conflict that would be against both Maximilian and Juarez. Maybe a big enough separatist movement encompassing a large part of Mexico or something.
 
A common enemy would help, but who? The British have gone home and the US is pro-Juarez.

Maybe have the Yaqui revolt again, but this time supported by the populace trying to get rid of both Maximilian and Juarez. Really getting into ASB territory but that's about the only way it could realistically happen...
 
Not all Latin countries,Brazil would be ok with a Mexican monarchy,even more because theyer monarchs are cousins.
History shows that monarchs and family relationships don't always work together. The War of Spanish Succession, Austrian and French monarchs were first cousins whose mothers were sisters. World War I, the Kaiser and George V were first cousins, (Empress Frederick and Edward VII were brother sister, and they were both grandsons of Queen Victoria) and Nicholas II got no benefit looking to his first cousin George V, (their mother were sisters who were close to each other), when he needed a place to go into exile after his abdication during the Russian Revolution. George V was instrumental in denying him a place of exile, and we know what happened afterwards.

If Emperor Pedro II of Brazil considered himself a "Western Hemisphere leader," and valued his "Latin American/American" political relationships, he may very well turn his back on his "European" relations for more practical purposes at home that favor his Empire over extended family.
 
Suppose the Mexican people feel that the US is not condemning Maximilian due to the Monroe Doctrine but instead want to conquer Mexico for themselves (the victorious Union Army is still intact and a very potent weapon, and no one's forgotten the US-Mexican War of 1846). Maximilian and Juarez might be forced into a compromise to keep the US from invading, but once that threat is gone I don't see them staying together...
 
So everything leads to the same point: ASB :neutral:

Then in that alternative story, it should be made clear that it is highly unlikely that such an alliance would have occurred. ;)
 
History shows that monarchs and family relationships don't always work together. The War of Spanish Succession, Austrian and French monarchs were first cousins whose mothers were sisters. World War I, the Kaiser and George V were first cousins, (Empress Frederick and Edward VII were brother sister, and they were both grandsons of Queen Victoria) and Nicholas II got no benefit looking to his first cousin George V, (their mother were sisters who were close to each other), when he needed a place to go into exile after his abdication during the Russian Revolution. George V was instrumental in denying him a place of exile, and we know what happened afterwards.

If Emperor Pedro II of Brazil considered himself a "Western Hemisphere leader," and valued his "Latin American/American" political relationships, he may very well turn his back on his "European" relations for more practical purposes at home that favor his Empire over extended family.



Maxmilian visited Brazil,was engaged to D.Pedro II sister and even suggested to Franz Josef to marry one of their younger brothers with the Brazilian crown princess,Isabel,if IRC. He and D.Pedro II exchanged letters and referred to themselves as "brothers" .The point I say is that D.Pedro II ,would see a Mexican empire with good eyes,and give diplomatic support,but no more than that,even if the Mexican empress was princess Maria Amelia.
 
Maxmilian visited Brazil,was engaged to D.Pedro II sister and even suggested to Franz Josef to marry one of their younger brothers with the Brazilian crown princess,Isabel,if IRC. He and D.Pedro II exchanged letters and referred to themselves as "brothers" .The point I say is that D.Pedro II ,would see a Mexican empire with good eyes,and give diplomatic support,but no more than that,even if the Mexican empress was princess Maria Amelia.
I am confused. I thought that Maximilian was married to Charolette of Belgium. I am not questioning you, I was just unaware he may have been engaged to Dom Pedro II's sister prior to marrying Charolette.
 
I am confused. I thought that Maximilian was married to Charolette of Belgium. I am not questioning you, I was just unaware he may have been engaged to Dom Pedro II's sister prior to marrying Charolette.



Sorry for the confusion,yes,Maximilian was engaged to princess Maria Amélia of Brazil,the younger daughter of emperor D.Pedro I and his second wife empress Amelia of Leuchtenbergh,also the youngest sister of D.Pedro II. Maria Amelia died of scarlet fever before getting maried. That was before Maximilian married Charlotte of Belgium.
 
Top