AHC: Henry Courtenay, Marquess of Exeter Has a Son By His First Wife

As everyone hopefully knows, Mary I, Queen of England (as well as her sis, Elizabeth) were at various times mentioned as possible wives for Edward Courtenay, 1e Earl of Devon (b.1526). But Devon was the son of the Marquess of Exeter by his SECOND wife, Gertrude Blount, whom he had married in 1519.

Exeter's FIRST wife was Elizabeth Grey, Viscountess Lisle whom he married in 1515. Now Liz Grey had formerly been the fiancée of Charles Brandon, duke of Suffolk, who had been created Viscount Lisle in right of his wife. However Little Brandon was the one doing the thinking, and Chaz married Mary Tudor the Elder instead. At which the countess of Devon (Henry VIII's aunt) got Liz's wardship and wed Liz to her son.

So, say Liz gives birth to a son in 1516/1517 (Henry, Viscount Lisle - I thought of naming him Edward but I wondered if Henry VIII - ever paranoid - wouldn't see that as the Courtenays emphasizing their royal pedigree SHOULD something happen to the king before he has a son) perhaps dying in childbirth to keep things more or less on an OTL track. Mary Tudor the Tounger is still born as OTL, and if Katherine of Aragon likewise fails to give Henry a son TTL (since she only had one pregnancy after Mary it's a 50-50 chance it'll be a boy, and then another 50-50 he won't go the same way as the dukes of Cornwall and Richmond and Edward VI).

Assuming things go as OTL (the birth of Lord Lisle would be a relatively minor POD which might not even have an outworking on things for a while). However, it does have an interesting effect on the issue and marriages of Liz Grey's heir (also named Liz Grey, Baroness Lisle), who wed first Edmund Dudley then Arthur Plantagenet, Henry VIII's uncle. Now, while the marriages will still happen (since both are before the POD), John Dudley (future duke of Northumberland) has no title to inherit.
Also, Anne Boleyn chose Gertrude, narchioness of Exeter as godmother to Elizabeth as a calculated snub (perhaps she still would), but Lord Lisle would be related to her through her mother. While Anne didn't LIKE all her relatives, Lord Lisle is probably too young to be much on her radar growing up. But if he's a good suck-up, Anne might be interested in arranging a good marriage for him once she is queen. Hell, I could even see her attempting to persuade Henry to humiliate Mary and marry HER to Lord Lisle.

Either way, I think it's a minor POD that could have interesting effects. Like the Dudley inheritance of the Lisle title, Brandon hanging onto the title in spite of not wedding the Viscountess. Anne Boleyn's Howard cousinage to Lord Lisle seeing him become a sort of protege at court, and how he'd be affected when she falls. The Exeter Conspiracy of 1538 etc etc
@ranichi17 @Cate13 @desmirelle @Tyler96 @BlueFlowwer @FalconHonour @VVD0D95
 
The fact that Liz Grey (Brandon's ward, not the aunt who inherited the girl's title when she died in 1519) was born in 1505 and only ten years old when Mary Tudor, widowed Queen of France, pressured Brandon to marry her or never have the chance again may have been another reason Brandon dumped Liz and her title. He would not have proposed himself to Mary, as he knew Henry would have his head for breaking a promise not to wed, but since it was "her idea" - he took the offer. I seriously doubt 'little Brandon' was the sole reason he wed Mary. She had had a crush on Brandon for years (hence her wrestling the promise from H8 that when widowed by Louis she could wed where she wanted) and she was beautiful, 19 years old and able to bear Charles children right away; a way better option than a ten yo girl. Mary being H8's favorite sister, H8 (after realizing Mary had taken the promise he's not intended to keep) decided Brandon as a bro-in-law rather than someone selected by the new French King (a definite possibility) was the better option. Brandon H8 could control.


Queen Anne (nee Boleyn) threatened to marry her stepdaughter to "some varlet", from which you may infer that she wants Mary to marry the butcher, the baker or the candlestick maker - the world varlet means "no gentlemen, only criminals, chimn8ey sweeps or the like need apply". Your nominee will not go far with "Lady" Mary so long as Queen Anne has anything to say about it. He's too close to the throne, blood-wise, to be on H8's list.

If be a good suck-up he will being in Norfolk's entourage. Once Anne is arrested, he will follow Norfolk's lead, he will be echoing Norfolk and 'tsk tsk' about Anne having fooled everyone about her chastity, etc.


If not, he'll be one of those named as a boytoy for that scarlet-lettered relative (along with her brother). (Although having ANOTHER booty call makes it almost unbelieveable, as how she managed - she didn't, as we know now - to keep that many boys on call and snuck in without ONE of her ladies ratting her out - probably hoping for a 'bonus' from the King.) For the record, I'm not so sure Viscountess Rochford is the one who brought up incest with Lord Rochford: there's no record of her testimony and THAT would have to publicized to really rally the people against a queen they already despised. {"Even his wife testified again them! That common stewed whore! Henry's like Edward IV, beguiled by a w/itch."} I believe a comment made by her {like "I wish George spent as much time with me as he does his sister, the Queen."} was twisted by another woman who didn't like Anne (Jane Rochford had a heavily vested interest in keeping her husband out of it; he had the title.) I think she was cornered once the comment was entered into evidence; damned if she confirmed it - she'd have been beheaded with her husband for conspiracy - and damned if she didn't: she would forever be tinged with the outcome of the trial and probably never brought back to court - so she pulled a Thomas More and let silence speak for her and it saved her ass.)
 
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Hmm, I think it's possible Anne would suggest Exeter for Mary, but that Henry would ignore it given how close to the throne the lad would be. I do agree with Desi up top, that if the lad has brains he'd stick with Norfolk when times are good, and then if Anne falls, he'd quickly abandon ship and save his own hide.
 
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