AHC:Henri III of France takes the name Wenceslas

Is it possible that Prince Alexander Edward(Henri III) takes the name Wenceslas, Wenceslas I of Poland is his ancestor via Bonne of Bohemia, he could be known as Wenceslas III as the King of Poland.
 
Is it possible that Prince Alexander Edward(Henri III) takes the name Wenceslas

Why Catherine de Medici would have to choose a foreign name and outside the French royal onomastics, at the time of changing the name of his son?

The sixth child and fourth son of Henry II and Catherine de Medici, born at the Fontainebleau on 19 September 1551 and titled Duke of Angoulême, was baptized at birth «Alexandre Edouard»; will change identity at the age of thirteen and a half: on 17 March 1565, at the Cathedral of Saint Etienne in Toulouse, he will receive, together with the sacrament of confirmation, the new name of «Henri», more consistent the fate of the heir to the throne of France.

«Alexandre», in tribute to one of his godfathers, Antoine de Vendôme Bourbon, King of Navarre and father of the future Henry IV; «Edouard», in honor of his other godfather Edward VI, King of England.
Pretty soon we abandon the use of his first name. As evidenced by numerous documents, especially from 1560 and the accession of Charles IX, the favorite son of Queen Catherine de Medici is commonly called «Edouard».

At the accession to the throne of Charles IX in December 1560 the regency was entrusted to the Queen Mother Catherine de Medici, and Alexandre Edouard became heir to the throne.
In subsequent years, the religious and political conflict between Catholics and Protestants worsens considerably. The Protestants of France have made a covenant with England and its sovereign, Elizabeth.
Catherine de Medici attaches great importance to symbols: she wants to free her fourth son by a name that may be cumbersome, that recalls the sovereign of a heretic country

In March 1563, Charles IX, his mother and the Court left Fontainebleau for a long journey across the kingdom. The regent imagined this Tour de France, which will last more than two years, to present the young king to his subjects and to work for national reconciliation.
After crossing the Champagne and Burgundy, down the Rhone Valley, traveled Provence and Languedoc, the procession arrives in Toulouse on 31 January 1565.
The previous year, Charles IX replied evasively enough to Philip II of Spain, who enjoined to accept the decrees of the Council of Trent and revoke pardons granted to the Protestants. And now Mr. Saint Sulpice, Ambassador of France in Madrid, announces that Philip II accepts a meeting in Bayonne. The queen-mother holds strong to this meeting, which would reassure the Catholic world. She is considering putting of this opportunity to show all his son are great servants of Roman orthodoxy.
On 17 March, takes place the traditional procession in honor of Saint Saturnin, first bishop of Toulouse. Catherine de Medici chose this holiday to organize a symbolic ceremony: the Confirmation of Edouard.
At the Cathedral of Saint Etienne in Toulouse, the young man thirteen and a half years, received the sacrament of Confirmation from the hands of Cardinal d'Armagnac.
Accordance with the wishes of his mother, his baptismal names are officially canceled and replaced by that of «Henri», named after his late father.
By an extremely clever and inexpensive maneuver, the queen mother has just passed a master stroke: provide to the Catholics of the kingdom and to Philip II the proof of indéfectile attachment of the kings of France to the Catholic faith.

The custom of adopting a "confirmation name" (has become the middle name(s) in some English speaking countries?), a saint’s name [or a virtue (eg. charity, chasity, prudence, etc.), or the name of a loved one or friend that they admire]at the Confirmation, was done in order to adopt the saint as a special heavenly patron or to honor a saint to whom one had a special devotion, .
The practice is still in use today, but after that «the smoke of Satan has entered the Holy Temple of God» (Blessed Pope Paul VI) after the Second Vatican Council (or Vatican II), some dioceses have encouraged returning to the older tradition of not picking a new name at confirmation. The idea is that the person is already supposed to have a Christian name, given to him in baptism, and that continuing to use that name at confirmation will serve as a link between these two sacraments of Christian initiation.
 
Wow, I didn't know that. I mean I knew he was christened Alexandre-Édouard, but the story behind his renaming to Henri. I guess I just figured he was much like his brother, Alençon who opted for a traditional name.

AFAIR, Alençon was christened Hercule, but due to numerous health issues he decided on his confirmation to be named François after his late brother, since he didn't fit the classical image of his birth name. I figured the Alexandre in Henri III's name was more of the love of the classics - like Louis XIV that named his three sons by La Montespan Auguste, César and Alexandre.
 
Is it possible that Prince Alexander Edward(Henri III) takes the name Wenceslas, Wenceslas I of Poland is his ancestor via Bonne of Bohemia, he could be known as Wenceslas III as the King of Poland.

I thought you meant he takes that as his regal name in Poland. If so that is possible I guess, though it would be an obvious attempt to gain popular support (by renaming himself after a famous, native King). But assuming that he still ascends the French throne "Wenceslas III of Poland" will quickly transform into Henri III of France.
 
I thought you meant he takes that as his regal name in Poland. If so that is possible I guess, though it would be an obvious attempt to gain popular support (by renaming himself after a famous, native King). But assuming that he still ascends the French throne "Wenceslas III of Poland" will quickly transform into Henri III of France.
Yes, he takes it as his regnal name, that's what I mean.
 
Yes, he takes it as his regnal name, that's what I mean.

Is it possible that Henryk Walezy (Henri de Valois) takes a "regnal name" in Poland.

Already others sovereigns had done this thing: the High Duke Jogaila of Lithuania (c. 1352/1362 – 1434), husband of Hedwig/Jadwiga heiress to the throne of Poland, took the name of Władysław at the baptism at the Wawel Cathedral in Kraków on 15 February 1386, and reigned as Władysław II, in honour of the previous Polish king (Władysław I the Elbow-high); or the prince Wenceslaus Premyslid (1289 – 1306), son of Wenceslaus II, King of Bohemia and Poland, when crowned king of Hungary in Székesfehérvár assumed (or signed his royal documents) the name Ladislaus (László); or Otto III of Bavaria (1261 – 1312) named himself Béla V after his maternal grandfather, Béla IV of Hungary...

Is it possible that Henryk Walezy (Henri de Valois) takes a "regnal name" in Poland, but I have my doubts. At Henri do not care anything of Poland or of the Polish matters: during his brief reign, he is bored, does not appreciate the country, and pretends sick during the day to avoid the institutional commitments, while at night he has fun with his French entourage.
I doubt that Henri is interested or that he knew to have as ancestor Wenceslas I of Poland; however, he could have taken the "regnal name" of Wenceslas/Wacław IV (because Wenceslaus/Wacław III has formally reigned on Poland from 21 June 1305 to 4 August 1306), or probably the name of Sigismund/Zygmunt (honouring the father and the brother of the fifty year old Anna Jagiellonka: Henri was formally the "fiancé" of Anna); or the name of Casimir/Kazimierz, an honoured name borne by four predecessors and by a [future] saint (Saint Casimir Jagiellon (1458 – 1484): after his first miracle, Casimir's brother Sigismund I the Old petitioned the pope to canonize him; he was canonized by Pope Clement VIII in 1602 and proclaimed the patron saint of Poland and Lithuania).
 
Is it possible that Henryk Walezy (Henri de Valois) takes a "regnal name" in Poland.

Already others sovereigns had done this thing: the High Duke Jogaila of Lithuania (c. 1352/1362 – 1434), husband of Hedwig/Jadwiga heiress to the throne of Poland, took the name of Władysław at the baptism at the Wawel Cathedral in Kraków on 15 February 1386, and reigned as Władysław II, in honour of the previous Polish king (Władysław I the Elbow-high); or the prince Wenceslaus Premyslid (1289 – 1306), son of Wenceslaus II, King of Bohemia and Poland, when crowned king of Hungary in Székesfehérvár assumed (or signed his royal documents) the name Ladislaus (László); or Otto III of Bavaria (1261 – 1312) named himself Béla V after his maternal grandfather, Béla IV of Hungary...

Is it possible that Henryk Walezy (Henri de Valois) takes a "regnal name" in Poland, but I have my doubts. At Henri do not care anything of Poland or of the Polish matters: during his brief reign, he is bored, does not appreciate the country, and pretends sick during the day to avoid the institutional commitments, while at night he has fun with his French entourage.
I doubt that Henri is interested or that he knew to have as ancestor Wenceslas I of Poland; however, he could have taken the "regnal name" of Wenceslas/Wacław IV (because Wenceslaus/Wacław III has formally reigned on Poland from 21 June 1305 to 4 August 1306), or probably the name of Sigismund/Zygmunt (honouring the father and the brother of the fifty year old Anna Jagiellonka: Henri was formally the "fiancé" of Anna); or the name of Casimir/Kazimierz, an honoured name borne by four predecessors and by a [future] saint (Saint Casimir Jagiellon (1458 – 1484): after his first miracle, Casimir's brother Sigismund I the Old petitioned the pope to canonize him; he was canonized by Pope Clement VIII in 1602 and proclaimed the patron saint of Poland and Lithuania).

If anything, he could take the name of his ancestor to legitimize his rule plus a marriage with the House of Piast or Brandenburg Hohenzollern(the heirs of Casimir III who were usurped by the father of Jadwiga), in that way he could legitimize and use that as the King of Poland and use that as an excuse to impose a hereditary monarchy.
 

Kingpoleon

Banned
Why don't we have Henri III born and raised in Bohemia the first few years of his life, perhaps due to a revolution? I mean, the French are always in a mood for a revolution*cough I'm slightly Francophobic cough*. Other than that, I don't see why he would feel the need to establish himself regally with a Bohemian name.
 
Wow, I didn't know that. I mean I knew he was christened Alexandre-Édouard, but the story behind his renaming to Henri. I guess I just figured he was much like his brother, Alençon who opted for a traditional name.

AFAIR, Alençon was christened Hercule, but due to numerous health issues he decided on his confirmation to be named François after his late brother, since he didn't fit the classical image of his birth name.


If you can be of interest, below the list of godparents of the children of Henry II and Catherine de' Medici:

1. Francis/François II, King of France, born 19 January 1544.
His godfathers were his ancestor, king François I, the Holy Father Pope Paul III and the Doge of Venice Pietro Lando; his godmother was his aunt Marguerite;
2. Elizabeth/Élisabeth of France, born 2 April 1545.
Her godfather was Henry VIII king of England and her godmothers were the queen Eleanor, second wife of king François, and the princess of Navarre, later queen Jeanne d'Albret;
3. Claude of France, born 12 November 1547.
Her godfather was the Swiss Confederation (???) and her godmothers were the queen of Navarre, Marguerite d'Angoulême, sister of king François, and the dowager queen of Scotland, Marie of Guise [Wikipedia.fr also adds Antoinette de Bourbon, duchess of Guise].
4. Louis, Duke of Orléans, born 3 February 1549.
His godfathers were the king John of Portugal for whom Lord Constantine (???), and the duke Ercole II (Hercules) of Ferrara for whom the duke Claude of Guisa; his godmother was the dowager queen of Scotland for whom of her sister-in-law Louise de Brézé duchesse d'Aumale.
5. Charles Maximilian - Charles IX, King of France, born 27 June 1550.
His godfathers were the king of Hungary and Bohemia Ferdinand of Habsburg and the king of Navarre Henri II; his godmother was Renée of Valois, duchess of Ferrara.
6. Alexandre Édouard - Henry/Henri III, King of France, also briefly King of Poland, born 19 September 1551.
His godfathers were Antoine of Bourbon, duke of Vendôme and jure uxoris king of Navarre, and Edward VI king of England; his godmother was the dowager duchess of Mantua Catherine of Habsburg, future third wife of King Sigismund II Augustus of Poland [for Wikipedia.fr the princess of Navarre, later queen Jeanne d'Albret].
7. Margaret/Marguerite of France, born 14 May 1553.
Her godfather was the duke Ercole II (Hercules) of Ferrara [for Wikipedia.fr Alfonso d'Este, son of Ercole II]; her godmothers were his aunt Marguerite and [the princess of Navarre Jeanne d'Albret (???)]
8. Hercules - Francis/François, Duke of Alençon and Anjou, born 18 March 1555.
His godfathers were the "Cardinal of Lorraine", Charles de Lorraine [for Wikipedia.fr Louis of Lorraine, the "Cardinal of Guise"], and Anne de Montmorency, Constable and Peer of France; his godmother was the duchess of Guise Anne d’Este, daughter of Ercole II (Hercules) of Ferrara and Renée of Valois... => the name "Hercules"???...
9. Victoria/Victoire of France, born 24 June 1556, died 17 August 1556.
Her godfathers were the Cardinal Carlo Caraffa, nephew to Pope Paul IV [for Wikipedia.fr the Cardinal Alfonso Carafa, he also nephew to the Pope] and the duke François of Guise; her godmothers were Louise of Bourbon, duchesse de Montpensier, and Marie of Bourbon Saint-Pol, heiress of the dukedom of Estouteville.
10. Joan/Jeanne [or Julia (???)] of France, born and died 24 June 1556.

(Portraits from the French Renaissance and the Wars of Religion, André Thevet)
 
I like the idea of Henri taking the name of Wenceslas for his reign as King of Poland.
Suppose his brother, King Charles IX of France has a son or sons who will definitely inherit the Crown of France.
Which princess would make a good Queen Consort for King Wenceslas IV (Henri)?
 
If Henry was to stay in Poland and wanted a polish reigmimg name he would be advised to choose an actually polish royal name Bolesław (which is equivalent of Czech Vaclav/Wenceslas), Władysław or Kazimierz (Casimir)
 
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If Henry was to stay in Poland and wanted a polish reigmimg name he would be advised to choose an actually polish royal name Bolesław (which is equivalent of Czech Vaclav/Wenceslas), Władysław or Kazimierz (Casimir)

Actually, Wenceslaus/Vaclav II was his ancestor, he had no ties with the Piasts, I think he could use the fact that he is descended from Wenceslaus II, the Polish royal house that Henri III had ties with are the Premyslids not with Piasts due to him being descended from Bonne of Bohemia, so Waclaw or Wenceslaus would make more sense to him if he wants to establish his legitemacy and genealogical claims and use his genealogical claims as propaganda.

I think a Successful French-Polish alliance will result in the earlier return of Silesia to Poland, which is basically the Polish equivalent to Burgundy and Flanders.

I like the idea of Henri taking the name of Wenceslas for his reign as King of Poland.
Suppose his brother, King Charles IX of France has a son or sons who will definitely inherit the Crown of France.
Which princess would make a good Queen Consort for King Wenceslas IV (Henri)?
Perhaps he could marry to one of the enemies of Austria, a Wittelsbach marriage might be a possibility, a Piast scion is also a possibility.
 
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I don't understand how the name 'Alexandre' would be a nod to Antoine de Bourbon-Vendôme. It makes much more sense as a nod to Catherine's putative brother, Alessandro de Medici, Duke of Florence and Penne, who died without legitimate heirs and whose heiress she purported to be - presumably François would inherit France and little Alexandre would inherit his mother's Italian pretensions as Duchess of Urbino etc.
 
I don't understand how the name 'Alexandre' would be a nod to Antoine de Bourbon-Vendôme. It makes much more sense as a nod to Catherine's putative brother, Alessandro de Medici, Duke of Florence and Penne, who died without legitimate heirs and whose heiress she purported to be - presumably François would inherit France and little Alexandre would inherit his mother's Italian pretensions as Duchess of Urbino etc.

What about a combination Wenceslaus Alexander, Waclaw Aleksander, the name sounds regal, it nods to both his relatives Wenceslaus II and the brother of Catherine of Medici.
 
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Perhaps he could marry to one of the enemies of Austria, a Wittelsbach marriage might be a possibility, a Piast scion is also a possibility.

It might also be the other way around. IOTL France and Habsburg Spain were rivals, yet they frequently intermarried.

Valois Poland-Lithuania and the Austrian Habsburgs might end up doing the same.
 
Henri III marries Kunigunde Jakobaa, the daughter of Frederick III, Elector Palatine of the Rhine
OR Henri III marries Countess Dorothea of Hanau-Munzenberg, the daughter of Count Philip III of Hanau-Munzenberg.
 
As to the name of Alexandre - AFAIR, the godparents chose the name for the child at their sponsorship. That doesn't mean that Queen Catherine didn't suggest the name to Antoine (and let's face it, if the Queen of France tells you she wants you to name her son after he debauched deceased half-brother, I can't think you have much choice:D), but it could also be Antoine gave it with a mind to Alexandre le Grand (Alexander the Great).

@Stolengood while the carol explicitly names the Wenceslas as "king" , it actually refers to Duke Vaclav I of Bohemia.
 
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