AHC: Have Tibet and Mongolia join the Axis during WW2

ben0628

Banned
Is there any way to change history to get Tibet and/or Mongolia to join the Axis during World War Two or during the Sino-Japanese War in the late thirties? If possible, how much of an impact would it have on the war in China?

Tibet's population at the time was about one million, so it obviously couldn't field a large army, but with German/Japanese supplies and military advisers, it could do some damage. As for Mongolia, although nominally independent during this time period, they were more or less heavily influenced by the Soviet Union so getting them to join in could be hard, but if they did, they could do some damage to the Chinese, especially if they have Soviet weapons.
 
The only ways Mongolia could join the axis is if the USSR joined or if Ungern-Sternberg had never conquered Mongolia.

I know nothing of Tibetan politics of the time, so I don't know how plausible Tibet's joining the axis would be.
 

ben0628

Banned
The only way Mongolia could join the axis is if the USSR joined.

That's what I was thinking. What were Soviet China relations like pre1939?

I know nothing of Tibetan politics of the time, so I don't know how plausible Tibet's joining the axis would be.

What I got from Wikipedia was that Tibet considered itself during this time to be independent while the KMT considered them to be a Autonomous state within China. What I don't know is whether or not tensions between the two could escalate to armed conflict. I know during World War Two, Chiang deployed Nationalist troops in Lhasa and rebuilt the airport there. Maybe this could be seen by Tibet as a hostile move?
 
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That's what I was thinking. What were Soviet China relations like pre1939?

I know nothing of Tibetan politics of the time, so I don't know how plausible Tibet's joining the axis would be.

What I got from Wikipedia was that Tibet considered itself during this time to be independent while the KMT considered them to be a Autonomous state within China. What I don't know is whether or not tensions between the two could escalate to armed conflict. I know during World War Two, Chiang deployed Nationalist troops in Lhasa and rebuilt the airport there. Maybe this could be seen by Tibet as a hostile move?[/QUOTE]

I found some information regarding Stalin's attitude towards Japan and China.

Mao: The Unknown Story said:
“The Stalin—Hitler Pact opened up the prospect that Stalin might do a similar deal with japan, with China a second Poland. Indeed, at this very moment, the Kremlin signed a ceasefire with Japan, bringing to a halt fighting that had been going on between the Soviet Red Army and the Japanese on the border of Outer Mongolia and Manchukuo. The Poland scenario caused Chiang Kai-shek acute concern, which he raised with Moscow. Mao's reaction, however, was one of delight. His whole strategy for the war with japan was aimed at prevailing on Russia to step in. Now a real chance appeared that Stalin might occupy part of China, and put Mao in charge. In late September that year, when Edgar Snow asked Mao how he felt about a Soviet—japanese pact, Mao's reply was enthusiastic. He said that Russia might sign such a pact 'as long as this does not hinder its support for . . . the interest of the world liberation movement [i.e., Mao himself and the CCP]'. Asked whether 'Soviet help to China's liberation movement may take a somewhat similar form' to Russian occupation of Poland, Mao gave a very positive reply: 'it is quite within the possibilities of Leninism'. The Poland scenario was now Mao's model for China.”

“Again, Mao was hoping that Russia would partition China with japan. Mao even had an ideal demarcation line, the Yangtze, which flows across the middle of China. To his inner circle, Mao dreamed of 'drawing a border . . . at the Yangtze. with us ruling one half . . .' Replicating the Poland scenario was indeed at the front of Stalin's mind, and Russia began talks with japan in September 1939, right after the signing of the Nazi—Soviet Pact, with the future of China very much at the centre of the negotiations.”

“The terms Japan offered on China did not begin to match Stalin's expectations. Tokyo would agree only to “a Russian sphere of influence in Outer Mongolia and Xinjiang,” which was hardly alluring to Stalin, as these two places were already in his pocket. japan also considered 'recognising and accepting the three northwestern provinces (Shaanxi, Gansu, and Ningxia) remaining a Chinese Communist base' - on condition that Russia agreed to 'restrain the anti—japanese activities of the Chinese Communists'. But this idea was again not nearly enough for Stalin, as the CCP was already occupying a much larger territory than these three provinces. Moscow's failure to strike a deal with Tokyo meant that Stalin's priority remained staving off the possibility of a japanese attack on Russia — and that meant Mao could not have his all—out war on Chiang yet. Stalin wanted a united China which could continue to bog down the japanese.”

See the document posted here.

So perhaps in a timeline in which the Soviets join the axis, China is partitioned between the Japanese and the Soviets. Mongolia probably gains all or part of Inner Mongolia, and Tibet might gain some territory too.
 
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