AHC: Have Sony outright lose the 90s Console War

Cl0wn_Dud3

Cl0wn_Dud3

Sega would need to stick to Saturnday, keep the system as a 2D system with 3D capabilities, focus on Europe (especially Eastern Europe) and Asia, Sega appeals the teen crowd and uses the Segata Sanshiro ads in the US and Europe,and develop a Sonic title (not 3D Blast or Xtreme but maybe a Metroidvania style game with a similar plot to Adventure 1 with the ability to play as multiple characters with different play styles)

Nintendo would have to adapt CDs (maybe use the proposed Caddy CD design that would have been used on the Play Station), keep Squaresoft and DMA Design in the Nintendo fold (even if it means Nintendo acquiring DMA), release Mother 3 and Fire Emblem 64 on the system at some point, don't waste time or money on the Virtual Boy, finally design a good controller.

Now the following should happen to Sony: Superman 64 is developed for PS1 and not N64, Spyro and Crash are developed for N64 and PC, Konami develops Metal Gear Solid for PC and Saturn only, The PS1 has a faulty disc drive, Sony insists on manufacturing the discs by themselves, Sony's management is very arrogant (ITTL) ,and finally the PS1 has very, very, bad loading times.

The impact becomes either a Sony that quits or teams up with Microsoft.
 

FillyofDelphi

Banned
Nivek said:
If Sony fails there is not MS, as MS got into videogames as a defensive move against Sony as they were pushing PS2 as a low cost Linux PC, if they fail and are dead 3rd that is not possible
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Actually, this raises an interesting question; if the big electronics companies don't manage to get their way into the console game, how does this impact of PC's taking on a partial gaming machine role? There's certainly a recent precident, given the role they filled in the 80's through things like the Commadore. Does losing the console wars mean Sony washes its hands of the VG scene altogether, or do they instead start a new front by trying to make home computers the preferred platform for gaming?
 
Cl0wn_Dud3

Cl0wn_Dud3

FillyofDelphi said:
Actually, this raises an interesting question; if the big electronics companies don't manage to get their way into the console game, how does this impact of PC's taking on a partial gaming machine role? There's certainly a recent precident, given the role they filled in the 80's through things like the Commadore. Does losing the console wars mean Sony washes its hands of the VG scene altogether, or do they instead start a new front by trying to make home computers the preferred platform for gaming?
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Sony would most likely develop gaming PCs, hell I could easily see the rise of Gaming PCs in the 2000s especially if Battlefield 1943 is developed for PC.
 

Nivek

FillyofDelphi said:
Actually, this raises an interesting question; if the big electronics companies don't manage to get their way into the console game, how does this impact of PC's taking on a partial gaming machine role? There's certainly a recent precident, given the role they filled in the 80's through things like the Commadore. Does losing the console wars mean Sony washes its hands of the VG scene altogether, or do they instead start a new front by trying to make home computers the preferred platform for gaming?
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Cl0wn_Dud3 said:
Sony would most likely develop gaming PCs, hell I could easily see the rise of Gaming PCs in the 2000s especially if Battlefield 1943 is developed for PC.
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What is a gaming PC? besides a PC with more powerful hardware, is just a PC, Gaming in PC have existed forever, so would not be different any Wintel based PC, unless Sony looks for their own OS and that is entering MS turf anyway.
 

FillyofDelphi

Banned
Nivek said:
What is a gaming PC? besides a PC with more powerful hardware, is just a PC, Gaming in PC have existed forever, so would not be different any Wintel based PC, unless Sony looks for their own OS and that is entering MS turf anyway.
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I was thinking more along the lines of gaming culture/perception rather than a fundimental shift in hardware. Basically, Sony drops out of the console game, but remains in the gaming market by pushing the idea that their machines are just as good for gaming as dedicated consoles, actively bringing in/incentivising publishers to produce more games that are "PC exclusives" or make PC versions of console games, ect.
 

Nivek

FillyofDelphi said:
I was thinking more along the lines of gaming culture/perception rather than a fundimental shift in hardware. Basically, Sony drops out of the console game, but remains in the gaming market by pushing the idea that their machines are just as good for gaming as dedicated consoles, actively bringing in/incentivising publishers to produce more games that are "PC exclusives" or make PC versions of console games, ect.
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Ummm...i got a little idea...Sony pushing the Sony Network(as Playstation bombed they will not use the name) as a japanese steam? maybe eve beating steam? Sony would give japanese publishers the big brand recognition they always want plus is a pure japanese company and japanese are very nationalist that regard, if Sony play their cards to be DRM-Hardware Maker would be a massive Hit. Specially if the Nintendo and Sega Standards make third parties more open publish their game in PC not to compete with Nintendo and Sega own First parties(and those will never got to PC anyway)
 

Alstein

My beliefs:

POD: a combination of defective PS1's and Nintendo agreeing to CD technology (they decide on the same CD/cartidge combo as the Saturn and get FFVII exclusive) dooms the PS1, which becomes about as popular as the 3DO.

Dreamcast will do really well, though massive piracy will hurt it.

Microsoft stays out of the console market, Sony sets a bad example.

SNK still goes bankrupt, but is bought out by Sega. A Virtua Fighter team ends up in a King of Fighters game.

In the Fighting game world- Tekken flops as a franchise, and we live in a (better) world where Virtua Fighter and Soul Calibur are the main 3D franchises.
Virtua Fighters become the traditional launch titles for Sega consoles.

Sony as a company falls during the 2008 financial crisis, and is bought out by someone else.

Estelle Bright ends up in Smash Brothers when Nintendo buys up Falcom and becomes one of Nintendo's major mascots.

We generally see less ambitious console games technically, as neither Sega nor Nintendo are super about pushing the envelope, and Japanese import games take a hit as well. US goes more towards PC gaming, and many of the more ambitious PS1 titles like Wipeout and Destruction Derby become PC hits instead. Once Direct Distribution takes off on PC in whatever form it does (most likely still Valve/Steam)- we will see a similar rise in Japanese games like OTL.

Sega's push into PC gaming in OTL does not happen.
 

Nivek

Alstein said:
Estelle Bright ends up in Smash Brothers when Nintendo buys up Falcom and becomes one of Nintendo's major mascots.
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This one was a curveball , So falcom become nintendo monolithsoft ittl? That is something.

Alstein said:
We generally see less ambitious console games technically, as neither Sega nor Nintendo are super about pushing the envelop
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Or operating to a massive loss, So we could get simple HD for seventh generation and full true HD for eight.

Alstein said:
and Japanese import games take a hit as we
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Depends, nintendo Would be more open to get an edge over Sega and if stolar never work for Sega thus not So restriction for nerd games.
 

CountDVB

Maybe Playstation ends up being too expensive as a result of their over-ambitions in trying to top Nintendo, but Nintendo recognizes that had the Playstation had been better-priced, they would've been screwed, so they purchase the schematics, information and such from Sony, which they accept to help with financial issues?
 

Nivek

Ashley Pomeroy

FillyofDelphi said:
Actually, this raises an interesting question; if the big electronics companies don't manage to get their way into the console game, how does this impact of PC's taking on a partial gaming machine role?
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In my opinion the thing that really kickstarted PC gaming as a major mainstream concern was Doom, back in 1993. There were plenty of PC games before that, but they tended to appeal to an older market; point and click adventures, flight simulators, space combat simulators etc. By 1993 the Amiga and ST were on their last legs. Suddenly, from nowhere, the PC had a fantastic, smooth, texture-mapped 3D action game, and for a while the only way to play it was on a PC. There were console ports (and some of them were very impressive, particularly the PlayStation version) but the likes of Quake and Unreal and Half-Life ran best on a PC.

For a few years after that the PC was the native platform for most of the top first-person shooters, and even though PCs were very expensive people were willing to spend that kind of money. In my opinion the PC and console games markets were separate worlds until the mid-2000s. A failure of the PlayStation probably wouldn't have had much impact on the PC market - I suspect the complete bankruptcy of Sony probably wouldn't have had much effect. There was a certain amount of cross-pollination, but they were separate markets until the technology converged around about the time of the PlayStation 3 / XBox 360.

I say this as a forty-something British man and PC owner. Things might have been different in the United States and Japan, but at least in Britain the PC flourished as a games machine post-Doom, and at least retained a huge niche as the only way to play first-person shooters as God intended until the mid-late-2000s. It still has a very large niche and retains its technical edge over consoles albeit that it's more expensive but on the other hand you can swap out the graphics card etc etc etc.

Imagining the failure of the original PlayStation is tricky, because not only was it a popular games console, it was also a pop culture phenomenon. The Saturn was firmly aimed at the stereotypical teenage gamer - the kind of xtreem kool dood that only existed in the imaginations of Sega's marketing people. The PlayStation on the other hand targeted an older demographic and made the games market hip; my impression is that Sega's Dreamcast was directly inspired by the PS1's success in that respect and was aimed at the same audience, because it had a preponderance of smart, arty games with interesting visuals, stuff like Jet Set Radio and Rez etc. Take away the PlayStation and I suspect Sega would have stagnated. The Saturn follow-up would have been a more powerful Saturn, perhaps with some kind of online connectivity. On the whole I'm glad the PlayStation took off because it really shook things up.
 
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Nivek

Ashley Pomeroy said:
Take away the PlayStation and I suspect Sega would have stagnated. The Saturn follow-up would have been a more powerful Saturn, perhaps with some kind of online connectivity. On the whole I'm glad the PlayStation took off because it really shook things up.
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SEGA ALREADY WAS PUSHING ONLINE before anything else...and the dreamcast is techically a stronger saturn, game like Rez and JSR did were part of sega culture, even without PS1,SEGA was looking for unique games both side of pacific...that is how Sakura Taisen and others games like Nights Born. So nope, that is Sony victory
 

CountDVB

Nivek

CountDVB said:
Well, I’m hearing disagreements in the comments, though I’m more proposing that what could screw Sony out of the console wars was basically them
overpricing the thing. Reason they don’t try again is that Nintendo pretty much sees the thing actually is viable and only did poorly because of marketing and not actual tech.
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Umm what was your idea? try to explain it more simple(ELI5,XD) just got it a little confuse, would be a nice detail

(The disagreements are fanboy wars but the interview...i need a japanese to read it fully)
 

CountDVB

Nivek said:
Umm what was your idea? try to explain it more simple(ELI5,XD) just got it a little confuse, would be a nice detail

(The disagreements are fanboy wars but the interview...i need a japanese to read it fully)
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Basically, my idea for Sony to lose the console wars is to overprice the Playstation. This hurts sales and it convinces Sony to leave the console industry as a result of biting it.

Hell, have SEGA even purchase the trademark/copyright/schematics or whatever of the Playstation and have the Playstation become part of SEGA. SEGA wouldn't win the console wars of the 90s (probably because they introduced their new console late in the game), but its massive success even within that short period of time would be the kick up the butt Nintendo would need to go into CDs.
 

Nivek

CountDVB said:
Basically, my idea for Sony to lose the console wars is to overprice the Playstation. This hurts sales and it convinces Sony to leave the console industry as a result of biting it.
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So no 3DO? or they just 3DO going all on it?(an early DVD and they overpushing the DVD would be that).

CountDVB said:
Hell, have SEGA even purchase the trademark/copyright/schematics or whatever of the Playstation and have the Playstation become part of SEGA. SEGA wouldn't win the console wars of the 90s (probably because they introduced their new console late in the game), but its massive success even within that short period of time would be the kick up the butt Nintendo would need to go into CDs.
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Why? Sega have far better internal R&D and without Sony pressure they would easily make their own things and without Saturn Fiasco, Sega would still Use the planetary naming Scheme or the japanese armour(Katana, Kabuto, nodachi,etc) name scheme.

Saturn Already was CD and that launched the same time as PS1 and was the N64 the latest one to be released
 

CountDVB

Nivek said:
So no 3DO? or they just 3DO going all on it?(an early DVD and they overpushing the DVD would be that).
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Mayeb 3DO or maybe they just got ahead of themselves with pricing.

Nivek said:
Why? Sega have far better internal R&D and without Sony pressure they would easily make their own things and without Saturn Fiasco, Sega would still Use the planetary naming Scheme or the japanese armour(Katana, Kabuto, nodachi,etc) name scheme.

Saturn Already was CD and that launched the same time as PS1 and was the N64 the latest one to be released
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I have no idea how much it was on an impact though I did find this:
 

Nivek

CountDVB said:
I have no idea how much it was on an impact though I did find this
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I work with a guy doing a TL about it and yeah the Videogame industry history is weird. Plus Sony was more offering 'be our console first party' that a full fledge alliance, and Sega already have saturn in the plans
 

thekingsguard

A big thing would be Nintendo using CDs for the N64. This would keep third party companies like Square and Capcom from jumping ship.
 
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