AHC: have Hitler and Mussolini become enemies

samcster94

Banned
With a POD of the day Hitler takes power, do everything possible to make Hitler and Mussolini hate each other. Their goals clearly conflicted with each other given Hitler's Reich and Mussolini's Roman Empire would overlap. Austria, pre 1938, was more pro-Italy than pro-Germany. More Western politicians spoke favorably of Mussolini than Hitler at the time. There almost certainly be an alt-WWII, but it will be a very different conflict(including the role of colonies like India). Bonus points if Hitler sides with Chiang Kai Shek instead of Hirohito as well.
 

iVC

Donor
The assassination of Dolfus (chancellor of Austria) can provide a turning point.

"Mussolini informed Hitler that he was satisfied with the presence of the anti-Marxist government of Dollfuss in Austria, and warned Hitler that he was adamantly opposed to Anschluss. Hitler responded in contempt to Mussolini that he intended "to throw Dollfuss into the sea". With this disagreement over Austria, relations between Hitler and Mussolini steadily became more distant in 1934.

In 1934, Hitler and Mussolini met for the first time, in Venice. The meeting did not proceed amicably. Hitler demanded that Mussolini compromise on Austria by pressuring Dollfuss to appoint Austrian Nazis to his cabinet, to which Mussolini flatly refused the demand.

Several weeks after the Venice meeting, on 25 July 1934, Austrian Nazis assassinated Dollfuss. Mussolini was outraged as he held Hitler directly responsible for the assassination that violated Hitler's promise made only weeks ago to respect Austrian independence. Mussolini rapidly deployed several army divisions and air squadrons to the Brenner Pass, and warned that a German move against Austria would result in war between Germany and Italy. Hitler responded by both denying Nazi responsibility for the assassination and issuing orders to dissolve all ties between the German Nazi Party and its Austrian branch, which Germany claimed was responsible for the political crisis.

Italy effectively abandoned diplomatic relations with Germany while turning to France in order to challenge Germany's intransigence by signing a Franco-Italian accord to protect Austrian independence.
"

So in OTL Italy befriended Germany again on the matters of invasion in Ethiopia and civil war in Spain.
With more agressive or blatantly arrogant Hitler Mussolini may obtain a wish to remove Hitler from power in Germany.
 
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samcster94

Banned
The assassination of Dolfus (chancellor of Austria) can provide a turning point.

"Mussolini informed Hitler that he was satisfied with the presence of the anti-Marxist government of Dollfuss in Austria, and warned Hitler that he was adamantly opposed to Anschluss. Hitler responded in contempt to Mussolini that he intended "to throw Dollfuss into the sea". With this disagreement over Austria, relations between Hitler and Mussolini steadily became more distant in 1934.

In 1934, Hitler and Mussolini met for the first time, in Venice. The meeting did not proceed amicably. Hitler demanded that Mussolini compromise on Austria by pressuring Dollfuss to appoint Austrian Nazis to his cabinet, to which Mussolini flatly refused the demand.

Several weeks after the Venice meeting, on 25 July 1934, Austrian Nazis assassinated Dollfuss. Mussolini was outraged as he held Hitler directly responsible for the assassination that violated Hitler's promise made only weeks ago to respect Austrian independence. Mussolini rapidly deployed several army divisions and air squadrons to the Brenner Pass, and warned that a German move against Austria would result in war between Germany and Italy. Hitler responded by both denying Nazi responsibility for the assassination and issuing orders to dissolve all ties between the German Nazi Party and its Austrian branch, which Germany claimed was responsible for the political crisis.

Italy effectively abandoned diplomatic relations with Germany while turning to France in order to challenge Germany's intransigence by signing a Franco-Italian accord to protect Austrian independence.
"

So in OTL Italy befriended Germany again on the matters of invasion in Ethiopia and civil war in Spain.
With more agressive or blatant arrogant Hitler Mussolini may obtain a wish to remove Hitler form power in Germany.
What if Dolfuss never was killed?
 
also untill 1938, Fascist Italy was not anti Jewish. Mussolini had Jewish doctors in his inner circle, and even helped revisionist zionists. Churchill himself called Duce, a great man.
 
Mussolini has to be in a situation where Hitler isn't the only possible ally. So Italy should not invade Ethiopia, in order to keep UK and France in good terms. Quite difficult, because of the obsession for the Roman empire, and Ethiopia in general. Maybe he drops from an horse...
 

SsgtC

Banned
Mussolini has to be in a situation where Hitler isn't the only possible ally. So Italy should not invade Ethiopia, in order to keep UK and France in good terms. Quite difficult, because of the obsession for the Roman empire, and Ethiopia in general. Maybe he drops from an horse...
That or he offers the UK and/or France some sort of concession for a free hand in Ethiopia. Maybe some sort of competitive or below market rate deal on North African Iron Ore?
 
Or Hitler misjudges Mussolini, thinks he's bluffing, and tries to annex Austria.
Then I don't think he would win. The German army has still not recovered from Versailles' limits, and the Italian one has not suffered from Ethiopia and Spain, and doesn't need to invade Germany before someone in the army overthrowns Hitler.
 
Hence the word "tries". The OP asks us to produce a situation in which Hitler and Mussolini hate each other. It says nothing about Hitler needing to survive the situation for more than five minutes.
 
Mussolini has to be in a situation where Hitler isn't the only possible ally. So Italy should not invade Ethiopia, in order to keep UK and France in good terms. Quite difficult, because of the obsession for the Roman empire, and Ethiopia in general. Maybe he drops from an horse...
Mussolini has to be in a situation where Hitler isn't the only possible ally. So Italy should not invade Ethiopia, in order to keep UK and France in good terms. Quite difficult, because of the obsession for the Roman empire, and Ethiopia in general. Maybe he drops from an horse...
Then I don't think he would win. The German army has still not recovered from Versailles' limits, and the Italian one has not suffered from Ethiopia and Spain, and doesn't need to invade Germany before someone in the army overthrowns Hitler.
There was an attempt the stressa front to give Mussolini half of Ethiopia in exchange for fighting against nazism. Eden and Pierre laval, who wasn’t a Buffon yet, actually wrote up a memorandum of understanding.
 
Well Mussolini did have a big hand in setting up the Munich conference, if Hitler rebuffed him Mussolini might turn on him out of wounded pride. He did far stupider things after all.
 
Best way is almost disastrous first state Visit of "Little Annoying Austrian" to Italy on 14 June 1934.
it had to be a informal visit of two days in Venice, so planned by "Little Annoying Austrian"
What he got was full state reception by Mussolini...

This was first getting to know between the two dictators and Mussolini consider to that moment the Nazi as barbarians
The rest of reception and meeting drove nervous "Little Annoying Austrian" almost Mad.
unfortunately he not got a tantrum, its almost happen about issue of Austria !

A perfect moment that "Little Annoying Austrian" get his tantrum
and start to insult the Italien officials, not knowing that Mussolini understand and speak German!
After that Mussolini would really despise this "A mad little clown"...

a very Annoy Austrian in Venice (if looks could kill)
34bdb7162dc1eb3720137e4f5f584403.png

Two Dictators first meeting (there are not happy)
meeting-between-hitler-and-mussolini-1934-b86498.jpg
 
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I suppose for this, you'd need the international community to get on board with the invasion of Ethiopia.

After all, those Ethiopians were slavers, and Italy was merely bringing the light of civilization to people trapped by a hidebound feudal dictatorship, etc., etc.

That way, Italy won't be isolated and forced to go to Germany for support. An Italy that is respected and seen as legitimate, even while they carry out their imperial project (up to a point), will not be in need of Germany.
 
Mussolini has to be in a situation where Hitler isn't the only possible ally. So Italy should not invade Ethiopia, in order to keep UK and France in good terms. Quite difficult, because of the obsession for the Roman empire, and Ethiopia in general. Maybe he drops from an horse...

Augusta Vindelicorum and Noricum, that would later be Austria, had been parts of the Empire, as well
 
What if Dollfuss manages to escape assassination (but no the coup) and takes refuge in Italy?
Would he still be recognised as the legitimate head of government? Would M?

Could this situation sour the relationship between H and M if the latter insists on reinstating Millimetternich?
 
I suppose for this, you'd need the international community to get on board with the invasion of Ethiopia.

After all, those Ethiopians were slavers, and Italy was merely bringing the light of civilization to people trapped by a hidebound feudal dictatorship, etc., etc.

That way, Italy won't be isolated and forced to go to Germany for support. An Italy that is respected and seen as legitimate, even while they carry out their imperial project (up to a point), will not be in need of Germany.

basically this, make the Hoare-laval Pact happen and the Stresa Front will endure
 
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