AHC: Have Harry Truman be a contender for greatest US President

With folks kindly pointing out that in my above scenario, Truman wouldn't be eligible for a third term (as he'd be out of office in 1949-1953) - perfect!

That way in 1956, Vice-President Harriman can get elected just in time to run into the recessions of the late 1950s and be defeated in his re-election bid by Richard Nixon in 1960, further enhancing Truman's alt-reputation.
 
Though Harry Truman is often regarded as a good, or even great President by many historians, he never is in contention for the greatest US president, or even the top-five greatest. Your challenge is to change that and have Truman be considered by most to be in the top-five presidents or even the number-one spot. How can this happen? How could Truman have acted differently on ww2, the welfare state and the cold war?

Win the Korean War . . . . plus it ends up with a United Korea?
 
Win the Korean War . . . . plus it ends up with a United Korea?
Err...how?
There's no way whatsoever that "Red China" is going to allow North Korea to be defeated. Furthermore the USSR will support Red China "to the last Chinese" to prevent it.
I doubt the USSR would throw in ground troops, but it would surely provide materiel, and probably "technical advisers"...in OTL it allegedly provided pilots for the Mig 15s...a truly great aeroplane and a severe shock for the Western powers....courtesy of the UK for providing the engine!
So far as I know, the Korean War was unpopular in the USA, although it obviously boosted the economy, and in the UK it effectively derailed a nascent economic recovery by increasing the price of commodities, not to mention diverting manpower into the military (although to be fair some..lots?.. of that was to support the remnants of the "let's keep the Empire" delusions)...
So, sorry, I can't see the "Communist bloc" allowing North Korea to be lost.
Also, I can't see the Bomb being used by the USA...it didn't have enough of them to waste on South East Asia when West Germany was at risk..
Ok...feel free to rip all that apart...
 
Err...how?
There's no way whatsoever that "Red China" is going to allow North Korea to be defeated. Furthermore the USSR will support Red China "to the last Chinese" to prevent it.
I doubt the USSR would throw in ground troops, but it would surely provide materiel, and probably "technical advisers"...in OTL it allegedly provided pilots for the Mig 15s...a truly great aeroplane and a severe shock for the Western powers....courtesy of the UK for providing the engine!
So far as I know, the Korean War was unpopular in the USA, although it obviously boosted the economy, and in the UK it effectively derailed a nascent economic recovery by increasing the price of commodities, not to mention diverting manpower into the military (although to be fair some..lots?.. of that was to support the remnants of the "let's keep the Empire" delusions)...
So, sorry, I can't see the "Communist bloc" allowing North Korea to be lost.
Also, I can't see the Bomb being used by the USA...it didn't have enough of them to waste on South East Asia when West Germany was at risk..
Ok...feel free to rip all that apart...

I think best case scenario for the US would involve Truman ordering the American forces to halt before they reach the Yalu River in October 1950, and then brokering a ceasefire that basically results in the peace agreement Eisenhower got in 1953. This would prevent the Korean War from becoming the stalemate it did, and it would be easier to portray as an American "victory." Truman would also be more likely to run for and win a third term in this scenario, making him the second longest serving President after FDR.
 
Err...how?
There's no way whatsoever that "Red China" is going to allow North Korea to be defeated. Furthermore the USSR will support Red China "to the last Chinese" to prevent it.
I doubt the USSR would throw in ground troops, but it would surely provide materiel, and probably "technical advisers"...in OTL it allegedly provided pilots for the Mig 15s...a truly great aeroplane and a severe shock for the Western powers....courtesy of the UK for providing the engine!
So far as I know, the Korean War was unpopular in the USA, although it obviously boosted the economy, and in the UK it effectively derailed a nascent economic recovery by increasing the price of commodities, not to mention diverting manpower into the military (although to be fair some..lots?.. of that was to support the remnants of the "let's keep the Empire" delusions)...
So, sorry, I can't see the "Communist bloc" allowing North Korea to be lost.
Also, I can't see the Bomb being used by the USA...it didn't have enough of them to waste on South East Asia when West Germany was at risk..
Ok...feel free to rip all that apart...

Re-read my post.

The OP asked how to get HST to be a contender for greatest POTUS

I never mentioned anything about HOW the the Korean War would be won.
 
There's no way whatsoever that "Red China" is going to allow North Korea to be defeated. Furthermore the USSR will support Red China "to the last Chinese" to prevent it.
I doubt the USSR would throw in ground troops, but it would surely provide materiel, and probably "technical advisers"...in OTL it allegedly provided pilots for the Mig 15s...a truly great aeroplane and a severe shock for the Western powers....courtesy of the UK for providing the engine!
So? That doesn't mean that the Chinese can win. For a comparison, the U.S. threw tons of men and materiel into propping up South Vietnam, but it still lost that one, obviously. The Soviets did the same in Afghanistan and only managed a stalemate...there are lots of examples of this on both sides.

To get concrete, have MacArthur die in a car accident a few months before the war starts. His replacement is less aggressive and moves more cautiously than MacArthur did IOTL, both delaying Chinese intervention (the U.N. forces aren't racing for the Yalu and MacArthur isn't talking about nuking Manchuria) and ensuring that when they do get involved they run into well-prepared defensive lines instead of strung-out advances and get massacred. U.N. weight of arms allows a gradual push northwards over a few years, and ultimately both China and the Soviet Union throw in the towel in supporting North Korea because it controls too little territory to be a viable state, they're both taking large losses without anything like corresponding gains, and they see bigger opportunities to bloody the United States elsewhere. Ergo, Korea is unified (or at least might as well be, with the Communists controlling nothing but a narrow strip of land along the northern border)...but the U.S. only won one round, it's not like it won the whole Cold War or that the Chinese and Soviets don't have other ways to get back at it.
 
I think best case scenario for the US would involve Truman ordering the American forces to halt before they reach the Yalu River in October 1950, and then brokering a ceasefire that basically results in the peace agreement Eisenhower got in 1953. This would prevent the Korean War from becoming the stalemate it did, and it would be easier to portray as an American "victory." Truman would also be more likely to run for and win a third term in this scenario, making him the second longest serving President after FDR.
Yes, I like that, and it seems plausible.
 
So? That doesn't mean that the Chinese can win. For a comparison, the U.S. threw tons of men and materiel into propping up South Vietnam, but it still lost that one, obviously. The Soviets did the same in Afghanistan and only managed a stalemate...there are lots of examples of this on both sides.

To get concrete, have MacArthur die in a car accident a few months before the war starts. His replacement is less aggressive and moves more cautiously than MacArthur did IOTL, both delaying Chinese intervention (the U.N. forces aren't racing for the Yalu and MacArthur isn't talking about nuking Manchuria) and ensuring that when they do get involved they run into well-prepared defensive lines instead of strung-out advances and get massacred. U.N. weight of arms allows a gradual push northwards over a few years, and ultimately both China and the Soviet Union throw in the towel in supporting North Korea because it controls too little territory to be a viable state, they're both taking large losses without anything like corresponding gains, and they see bigger opportunities to bloody the United States elsewhere. Ergo, Korea is unified (or at least might as well be, with the Communists controlling nothing but a narrow strip of land along the northern border)...but the U.S. only won one round, it's not like it won the whole Cold War or that the Chinese and Soviets don't have other ways to get back at it.
I don't think either China or the USSR would allow such an extensive defeat of North Korea. It would only encourage aggressive US action elsewhere against the Communist bloc...and that would likely turn very nasty indeed.
 
I don't think either China or the USSR would allow such an extensive defeat of North Korea. It would only encourage aggressive US action elsewhere against the Communist bloc...and that would likely turn very nasty indeed.
You could say the same thing--and people did say the same thing--in reverse about "allowing" the Communist takeover of Cuba (which was even an aggressive exporter of Communism) or Vietnam. But ultimately the U.S. couldn't force those countries to not be Communist. So it gave up on them, took its lumps, and looked elsewhere.

The same thing is true here. If trying to keep North Korea from falling involves China or the Soviet Union paying an unsustainable and excessive price, they won't do it. They'll give up, just the same way the Soviets gave up on the Communists in Greece or eventually on the Communist Parties in Western Europe as possible agents of taking over those societies. The threshold might be higher, true, especially for China, but there is going to be at some level a price that they are unwilling to pay to keep North Korea operating.
 
They could have in Cuba.
Incidentally surely who was or wasn't a great President must be a matter of opinion?
 
As much as I respect Truman, short of bringing about permanent world peace with the US at the front I doubt he could ever beat Washington and Lincoln.
 
If Dewey actually defeated Truman, Dewey would get blamed for China and Korea and Truman would just be the father of the post-war world.
 
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