AHC: Have England win the most World Cups
- Thread starter BirdyWard
- Start date
England was one goal away from qualifying for the finals in 1990 and 2018. If they win their last two matches instead of losing them those years and also win in 2002 (rather than losing by one goal in the quarterfinals), then given their win in 1966 they'll be tied with Brazil (down one due to 2002) and Italy with four victories (Germany has four IOTL, but they've been displaced from their win in 2018 ITTL).
Of course, sports are prone to the butterfly effect, so there's no particular reason to believe that changes in 1990 would lead to an apparently similar situation a generation later. But I don't know of a reason why any other particular outcome would be promoted.
Of course, sports are prone to the butterfly effect, so there's no particular reason to believe that changes in 1990 would lead to an apparently similar situation a generation later. But I don't know of a reason why any other particular outcome would be promoted.
Or, for less butterfly genocide (but possibly more actual genocide): have England decide to participate in 1938 and win. Then, for whatever reason, the gap in World Cups due to World War II never ends, and one win is the most one country (specifically, Uruguay, Italy, and England) ever gets.
One of the issues was that the manager simply managed he had little input into squad selection, that had to be approved by the FA. Which explains why people like Brian Clough never got the nod to manage England - though he did screw up at Leeds which didn't help. Also a lot of players never got selected simply because the FA didn't like them regardless of how good they were.
Have the National Lottery established earlier than 1994 (say early 80s?) and this funds more grass root foot ball stuff (among other things) with a knock on effect of more better young players by the 1990s.
This results in an earlier cascade of better quality football players coming into English (British?) football earlier and a resulting improvement to England football fortunes during this period over OTL.
Or maybe I should have written, In Europe and Latin America there's only one World Cup and it's The World Cup because it's the definite article...
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FWIW One
England sort of won the World Cup in 1909 and 1911 which increases the total from one to three.
I wrote sort of because it wasn't the FIFA World Cup it was the Sir Thomas Lipton Trophy rather than the FIFA World Cup and it was won by West Auckland Town F.C. rather than England's national team.
Sir Thomas Lipton Trophy - Wikipedia
West Auckland Town F.C. - Wikipedia
FWIW Two
Tyne Tees Television made a docudrama about it in 1982 that starred Dennis Waterman of The Sweeney and Minder fame.
I've no idea how historically accurate it is. However, it is very entertaining. I know this because (by coincidence) I finished watching it on Vimeo earlier this morning.
The World Cup: A Captain's Tale - Wikipedia
It is accurate in that West Auckland won 2 world cups. So that is England on 3 before we even start ;-)
I couldn't agree more!
FWIW One
England sort of won the World Cup in 1909 and 1911 which increases the total from one to three.
I wrote sort of because it wasn't the FIFA World Cup it was the Sir Thomas Lipton Trophy rather than the FIFA World Cup and it was won by West Auckland Town F.C. rather than England's national team.
Sir Thomas Lipton Trophy - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
West Auckland Town F.C. - Wikipedia
one thing to add/remember - by winning in 90 its means we autoqualify as holders for 94 so that then gives us another chance
(albeit a slim chance, as Sir Bobby had already agreed prior to Italia90 to leave as manager, so we would invariably end up with the Turnip anyway)
;-)
For the benefit of the Star Wars fans...FWIW Two
Tyne Tees Television made a docudrama about it in 1982 that starred Dennis Waterman of The Sweeney and Minder fame.
I've no idea how historically accurate it is. However, it is very entertaining. I know this because (by coincidence) I finished watching it on Vimeo earlier this morning.
It's a VHS recording which explains the poor quality of the picture and sound.
The World Cup: A Captain's Tale - Wikipedia
Ben Whittingham, one of the West Auckland players, was portrayed by Jeremy Bulloch who was Boba Fett and the TV film was made between The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.
And for the benefit of Poirot and Sharpe fans Gordon Knightly was portrayed by Hugh Frazer who would go onto play Captain Hastings and the Duke of Wellington.
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marktaha
Banned
Manager picked the squad ever since Ramsey took over. Clough should have been manager I admit
That aught to put Scotland in the "Top Five" World Cup titles as well. Northern Ireland and Wales would have have at least one World Cup title to their names and outside chances of making the "Top Ten".
PakistaniGuyUK
Banned
Well I think the answer to this might be quite simple. The FA take the 1934 World Championships and ones subsequently seriously rather than ignoring them. Initial conditions would have been such that England could have put up a serious challenge - fewer competitive teams being one of them.
I don't know how good Uruguay actually were - or did they just win the first 2 tournaments because others fielded weak sides/sides that were generally weak anyway? If so then England's chances of winning the first few World Cups would've got a shot in the arm.
Secondly, a consequence of the FA showing interest would've possibly been the first two or three tournaments being hosted in England as opposed to South America (facilties, convenience, and prestige etc as opposed to Uruguay which was pretty obscure really). However, i don't think it was until the 1950s that the FA started taking any serious interest and by then international sides had become stronger/more numerous.
* Disclaimer: this post may contain some assumptions and factual errors as I've not researched dates etc
I don't know how good Uruguay actually were - or did they just win the first 2 tournaments because others fielded weak sides/sides that were generally weak anyway? If so then England's chances of winning the first few World Cups would've got a shot in the arm.
Secondly, a consequence of the FA showing interest would've possibly been the first two or three tournaments being hosted in England as opposed to South America (facilties, convenience, and prestige etc as opposed to Uruguay which was pretty obscure really). However, i don't think it was until the 1950s that the FA started taking any serious interest and by then international sides had become stronger/more numerous.
* Disclaimer: this post may contain some assumptions and factual errors as I've not researched dates etc
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