AHC: Have conservative parties destroyed at least in one European great power

Thomas1195

Banned
The challenge would be to destroy Conservative of all kinds (including Christian Democracy) and Reactionary parties permanently in elections in at least one European great power by 1900. Classical Liberals would replace them as the main right-wing faction.

IOTL, this happened in Denmark because the actual Conservative party killed itself. It also happened in France to a less extent, as Bonarpartists and Monarchists were utterly destroyed in early 20th century.

You can have 4 PODs: Post-Napoleon, 1850, 1868 and 1885.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Earliest POD I think would be successful 1848 liberal revolutions. No, British liberal revolutions during 1830s or early 1840s.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
You'd need to get rid of their voters.

That's not quite so easy.

Well, without Disraeli, the Tories would become a countryside fringe party.

Also, no Liberal Unionists, at least the Chamberlainite industrialists must be kept.

We can get rid of their electoral base by accelerating industrialization and urbanization.
 
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Britain goes full Chartist. The new franchise means that the Tories are relegated to the political fringes and a new party system emerges to fill the vacuum.
 
Well, without Disraeli, the Tories would become a countryside fringe party.

Also, no Liberal Unionists, at least the Chamberlainite industrialists must be kept.

We can get rid of their electoral base by accelerating industrialization and urbanization.

The Tories died out about three times between 1700 and 1850. A faction of the Whigs then started being called Tory and eventually accepted the name after the previous negative association had worn off and the remaining Whigs became mrore liberal.

In reality social views will always have a spectrum between conservatism and progressivism. Wherever a particular society exists on that spectrum there will be politicians a bit to the left of that arguing for more and politicians a bit to the right arguing to slow down or reverse. The second lot will always be called conservative, even if they would be considered liberal by other societies or the same society 50 years prior.
 
Britain goes full Chartist. The new franchise means that the Tories are relegated to the political fringes and a new party system emerges to fill the vacuum.

And susbtantial movement in a socially liberal direction will eventually realign with the new electorate until it settles near the middle of it. Then there will be some new "conservatives" who believe it has gone too far.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
And susbtantial movement in a socially liberal direction will eventually realign with the new electorate until it settles near the middle of it. Then there will be some new "conservatives" who believe it has gone too far.
My challenge is more simple. Destroy the 19th/early 20th century conservatives, replacing them with classical liberal parties (with liberal names and messages). Social democrats or social liberals then fill up the left.

Actually, there are differences between classical liberalism and conservatism in social issues like civil rights.
 
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My challenge is more simple. Destroy the 19th/early 20th century conservatives, replacing them with classical liberal parties (with liberal names and messages). Social democrats or social liberals then fill up the left.

Actually, there are differences between classical liberalism and conservatism in social issues like civil rights.

Yes, I understand. My point is that such messaging won't be sustained. Because you would then get a classical liberal party and a left wing party that would agree with each other on social liberalism. Then policy would be made in a socially liberal direction and it would keep on getting made until society becomes, say, 20 points more liberal socially. Then there would be a chunk of the electorate that wanted social liberalism only 15 points more socially liberal. A party would want to appeal to that party, place themselves at 18 points more liberal, and would tailor their messaging to appeal to them. They would then be regarded as socially conservative by the 20 points median voters and the 22 points socially liberal party.
 
Yes, I understand. My point is that such messaging won't be sustained. Because you would then get a classical liberal party and a left wing party that would agree with each other on social liberalism. Then policy would be made in a socially liberal direction and it would keep on getting made until society becomes, say, 20 points more liberal socially. Then there would be a chunk of the electorate that wanted social liberalism only 15 points more socially liberal. A party would want to appeal to that party, place themselves at 18 points more liberal, and would tailor their messaging to appeal to them. They would then be regarded as socially conservative by the 20 points median voters and the 22 points socially liberal party.

I have to agree. Conservatism is a moveable feast and is a relativistic one at that. That is if you are not for the progressive/change-focused policies of the Radicals/Socialists/Liberals or whatever of the 'left' then you almost by default become the Conservative party, regardless of what you call yourselves. This happened to the Girondists in the French Revolution (Also the modern Australian Liberal Party).

Having said that, there are two ways I can see something sort of like this happening but I feel that both are cop-outs.

1) Conservatives except in name

What you can have happen is the Conservatives being so utterly crushed through unpopular policies and incompetent leaders that their voters first defect on mass and are then absorbed into the faithful of the Liberals. If it's late enough this could come about as an 'Anti-Socialist' coalition party. This new bolster Liberal party would then drift to the right to retain it's new followers and become right wing party but as it does it loses some if it's weaker supporters in the centre which rebalances the party system between the Liberals and the Social Radicals/Socialists/Whigs or whatever on the left. I see it this would comprise the Classical Liberals as the dominant element but with a significant 'conservative value' voters as a minority. The name would be Liberal but the party would be slightly further to the right than a pure Liberal party.

I can see this happening in Great Britain and possibly France.

2) Revenge of the Jacobins.

This scenario involves some sort of general revolution followed by genuine elections. It would be helpful if it occurs in a way which destroys the aristocracy. The new political system would (at first) reject all vestiges of the conservatism if the old regime and only elect parties which are Liberal or more to the Left of Liberal. Presuming no successful counter-revolution, this would eventuate the situation you desired - at least in the short run, the Girondist problem I mentioned above, would inevitably occur.

I can see this happening in Germany and maybe in a unified Italy.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
What you can have happen is the Conservatives being so utterly crushed through unpopular policies and incompetent leaders that their voters first defect on mass and are then absorbed into the faithful of the Liberals.
It happened in France with the AFD.

For Britain, we need to butterfly away either Disraeli or Liberal Unionists.

But my challenge also means that The (Classical) Liberals would be still the largest faction of a hypothetical Anti-Socialist coalition. So, IOTL this only happened in Denmark, Switzerland and to some extent pre-ww2 France.
 
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Have the Russian Revolution come early possibly because of an 1890's Great War. Russian Tsarist "Autocracy, Orthodoxy, Nationality" Conservatism was supported by sub 5% of the population and in a free election they would get completely crushed.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Thiers and the Opportunist Republicans strike me as conservative.
They were classical liberals and were on the left of Bonapartists, Legitimists and equivalents (true Conservatives), which soon became a small right-wing fringe.

And you can look at some elections between 1900-1914, the conservatives were totally crushed.
 
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