AHC: Have a World War 4 occur within a century of WW3

SaucePlease

Banned
To disprove Einstein, have a World War 4 fought not with sticks and stones but with weapons of mass destruction. In order to meet all requirements, a war with a minimum of 6 participants spread across at least two continents lasting a minimum of 3 years must occur in World War 3 & 4. Weapons of mass destruction (Biological, Chemical, or Nuclear) must be used in both wars. No POD before 1945; World War 4 must end before 2100 CE.
 
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Probably best case would be that WW3 starts in 1948 or during Korean War. Then there would be enough nations starting WW4.
 
WW1: 1756-63
WW2: 1778-83
WW3: 1789-1815
WW4: 1914-18
WW5: 1937-45

WW4 just about started within a century of the end of WW3.
I wish people would stop with these smart aleck comments. This is obviously not what he means.

Honestly, I'm a little dubious that WW3 would inevitably result in a nuclear exchange. After all, before WW2 nearly EVERYONE assumed that the cities of the world would be destroyed by chemical bomb attacks. Even during the entirety of the Eastern Front, which can be considered one of the most savage wars in human history and a struggle of national existence, chemical or biological weapons were not used ONCE, and both sides had ample opportunities to do so.
 

SaucePlease

Banned
I wish people would stop with these smart aleck comments. This is obviously not what he means.

Honestly, I'm a little dubious that WW3 would inevitably result in a nuclear exchange. After all, before WW2 nearly EVERYONE assumed that the cities of the world would be destroyed by chemical bomb attacks. Even during the entirety of the Eastern Front, which can be considered one of the most savage wars in human history and a struggle of national existence, chemical or biological weapons were not used ONCE, and both sides had ample opportunities to do so.

I think that has more to do with the fact that chemical weapons weren't that tactically feasible in WW2 due to gas masks and less trench warfare. Nuclear weapons are actually quite effective against military targets given the fact that it is simply a gigantic bomb that also leaves an area of effect death-zone. Chemical and Biological weapons on the other hand are actually far more potent against civilians than it is against trained soldiers.
 
The Hot War by Turtledove, although a very flawed series, seems like it will end with a WW4 sometime in the near future.
 
WW3 starts relatively soon after WW2. Berlin crisis, Suez Canal, etc. Before we have enough of a nuclear arsenal to send civilization back to the Stone Age. We still do a lot of damage, but it isn't the end of civilization. The Communist Bloc loses, and Eastern Europe becomes democratic. Communists stay in power in Moscow because Russia is too hard to occupy and subdue.

Between the damage caused by the war and the sheer horror of WMD, all countries become less warlike for at least the next couple of decades. Colonialism ends slightly earlier as Europe can't afford it.

The Saudis start funding radical Islam sooner, leading to the brand of terrorism we know in OTL. But post WW3 you don't have the Mossadegh coup, so Shi'ites (who are historically tolerant) don't become associated with ayatollahs.

When WW4 breaks out, it's Libya, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Somalia, Pakistan, Afghanistan vs Iran, Israel, western Europe, Ethiopia, and the US. Maybe the USSR jumps in due to trouble on its southern border (on the side of its WW3 enemies, especially if a Khrushchev type is in power).
 
Can you actually just give details like participants and casus belli instead of just listing years?
Sure. WW1 and WW2 are the same. Cuban missile crisis starts WW3 and Israeli-Iran tensions escalate to an all time high when Hezbollah controlled Lebanon, backed by Iran, invade Northern Israel, which causes the US and Chinese to intervene, starts WW4
 
ww III could happen prior to 1962 .. it could happen prior to 1966.. but after that . things are not so nice..

I don't think WW III would be all end all, even in the 80's oh it will surely suck and be a very horrible event for humanity.

given time things would move forward .. quite some time if we are talking the 80's. but if it was in the 60's it could be possible .. more so in the 50's
 
WW3 June 46 to July 46 European theatre. Limited nuclear detonations at German / Polish border. USSR loose E.Germany

WW4 Oct 62 2nd Korean war with nuclear detonations in Korea, Japan, China, Russia and USA. China takes major beating from Russia and USA. USA, Japan nd USSR take 2 to 3 chinese nukes. Limited number of tactical nukes in central Korea.

Stage set for WW5?
 
If WWIII starts much after the late 1960s, it would be more than 100 years before you could get a "world war" with any weapons. The northern hemisphere will be devastated with lots of death zones, and if bioweapons get loose things could get ugly. There will be some leakage of fallout south of the equator, how much is unclear. China is going to get hit from both sides. In this scenario the potential reservoirs of scientific and industrial power/knowledge are Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and perhaps Brazil and/or Argentina. At this point in time all of the "third world" countries are very dependent on the "first world" for industrial, medical, and food support which is now gone as surviving entities certainly have nothing to spare. All of the horsemen are unleashed as there is fighting for resources, and even the surviving "modern" countries have limits on what they produce either from agriculture or industry. In the wake of WWIII after the late 60s, you'll see a lot of regional/local fighting as folks sort these issues out, in some areas using relatively old tech. It will be some time before you'd have a situation with enough tech and population to actually have a "world war".

A WWIII before then is unlikely to end with anything except the USA/NATO or USSR/WP losing big time. While nobody wants a widespread atomic war, nobody wants a situation where the "loser" has a chance for round two (cue Germany 1918-1939). If the war is late 40s through 1962/Cuban missile crisis then you have the potential for WWIV within 100 years, who and how too many butterflies. The winner of WWIII may very likely unilaterally say we have nukes, and you can't and enforce it.
 
Two comments before I try it out.

Number one: ohhhhhhhhhhhh fucking shit.

Number two: everyone knows World War V would skip over III and IV. That’s the beauty of World War V. I HAVE SPOKEN!

OK, now down to business.

First off, the postwar treaties have to go to complete and utter shit for the Wallies/NATO to even consider a hot war against the Soviets and/or Maoists. Stalin would have to demand more and think he can get it. He would have to overstep big time in Europe or Japan; I think he can get away with more in China and Korea.

So Churchill, who was already jonesing for a war with the USSR, gets his casus belli - Stalin violates treaties almost out of the gate, and soon enough, there’s an attack in West Germany. NATO links it to the USSR, and NATO’s member states declare war on all Warsaw Pact nations. One way or another, the Chinese Civil War gets roped into this, maybe by Korea going hot sooner and Communist rabble-rousers getting too involved in Japan. Basically Stalin overplays his hand and NATO fights back.

Odds are NATO wins but it’s a damaging victory, not quite Pyrrhic but it probably leaves a long-lasting negative imprint on the world. The baby boom is delayed and subdued if not outright averted; I’m guessing a full-on war starts around 1948 and runs through about 1951.

Stalin gets the bomb but never gets the chance to really use it; the one time it’s deployed, it fails to detonate. After NATO drops the H-bomb on Stalingrad, the USSR surrenders and is dismantled; China is split and made into West-friendly dictatorships that eventually industrialize and turn into functioning democracies. Korea is never divided and becomes an autonomous republic under someone like Syngman Rhee.

The US basically remakes the world in its own image, but with no outward enemy, it soon turns on itself. The Civil Rights movement turns global, and World War IV is fought between divided states who frequently use WMDs against each other. Israel waged war with the Muslim states. India and Pakistan battle. The former USSR splits into Russia vs the Baltics and Stans. North China joins Japan against the other two and Korea. The US goes full meltdown on race and ideological lines.

By 1980 the world has gone to complete and utter shit. Any once-dominant country is a miserable husk.
 
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