AHC - have a majority Jewish state outside of Israel

The problem with an American state being "Jewish" is that you would need some major and fundamental changes in the US Constitution. What prevents non-Jews from moving in, or Jews moving out? The reason it "worked" in Yiddish Policeman's Union is because the refugees were settled in a region that was remote, very scantily populated and a territory not a state. Additionally the Jews were sort of like the "DACA" kids OTL, allowed to stay there but not given immigrant status but residence permits that could be revoked at any time and also only good for Alaska. In the 1940s the bureaucracy to manage/enforce this, in the 1800s no way - you can't surround Montana with a "wall".

Utah is still majority Mormon after 170 years, so I imagine it'd just be a matter of getting the ball rolling.

Wyoming isn't that different from the Pale climate-wise, and if a bunch of Jewish intellectuals devoted to the cause opt to set up a university of repute in Wyoming and some religious leaders set up yeshivas that attract folks from all over, I think the place could stay Jewish.

Plus, who doesn't like the idea of Jewish cowboys?
 
You'd have to do something with the Lithuanians of course, although Tsarist Russia didn't much like the Lithuanians either. But the Vilna Governorate had tons of Orthodox Slavs, and putting the Jews in any sort of position over them would be alien to the mindset of Tsarism.

Fair point. Perhaps there's a place in Siberia or Central Asia the Tsar opts to stick the Jews?

Alternatively the Tsar could decide to play the Jews and Poles against each other and stick the Jews in Vistula Land, but I'm not sure if the Tsar would trust putting so many Jews on the German border.
 
Utah is still majority Mormon after 170 years, so I imagine it'd just be a matter of getting the ball rolling.

Wyoming isn't that different from the Pale climate-wise, and if a bunch of Jewish intellectuals devoted to the cause opt to set up a university of repute in Wyoming and some religious leaders set up yeshivas that attract folks from all over, I think the place could stay Jewish.

Plus, who doesn't like the idea of Jewish cowboys?

The problem is that just having a lot of Jews doesn't make a place a Jewish state. Utah has always had plenty of non-Mormons after all. And even if you had a majority Jewish state in the United States, there would be plenty of Gentiles and Judaism wouldn't be given any sort of privileged status.

But cowboys, Jews, I guess Levi Strauss (famed for his blue jeans) might as well count IOTL. There were plenty of other Jews who went into business in the Old West too. But even in a Jewish state, they'd have to do some seriously illegal things to gain any advantage over their gentile competitors.
 
The problem is that just having a lot of Jews doesn't make a place a Jewish state. Utah has always had plenty of non-Mormons after all. And even if you had a majority Jewish state in the United States, there would be plenty of Gentiles and Judaism wouldn't be given any sort of privileged status.

But cowboys, Jews, I guess Levi Strauss (famed for his blue jeans) might as well count IOTL. There were plenty of other Jews who went into business in the Old West too. But even in a Jewish state, they'd have to do some seriously illegal things to gain any advantage over their gentile competitors.

Yeah, but OP asked for a majority-Jewish state, not a Jewish State/Judenstaat.
 
What would be an interesting scenario to explore on this subject given the right PODs would be either a personal / real union or alliance between the ATL Himyarite and Semien kingdoms, provided both thriving/surviving kingdoms were moderately wanked beforehand and especially given their location to the Red Sea, Gulf of Aden and Indian Ocean with regard to the spice trade and more. Perhaps a surviving ATL Himyarite kingdom could later back Queen Judith / Gudit via an invasion of Ethiopia, similar to how Axum conquered Yemen in OTL.
 
Perhaps Russia decides instead to try to depopulate Poland after one of the rebellions with expulsions and transfers to Siberia and the like and instead, moves their Jews in and uses their mercantile skill to develop the region into a tax base for them.
Would not work for several reasons. To name some:
-Tsarist Russia was nasty place, but this is not Stalin's USSR. Technical difficutlies of moving such masses of people plus European public's opinion outrage makes it impossible.
-Polish uprising were noblemen's affairs. Polish peasants were passive and even hostile towards them. So there is no reason for mass expulsion.

Surviving Free City of Cracow, bordering Austria, Prussia and Russia would became important trade hub and being city-state is going to have very high % of Jews, unless immigration to FCC is restricted.
 
Salonika seems like the most likely concept, if some sort of 19th century peace deal leaves it as a city-state and it does economically well enough to attract Jewish immigrants from the Middle East or Eastern Europe. Would being largely Sephardic prevent Ashkenazi Jews from moving there?
 
The problem with Salonika, or any other "city-state" is that they are really not terribly viable in the modern world. Even the most successful city-state, Singapore, has larger patrons (Australia and the USA for sure). Whatever industry a city state has and much if not almost all of the food supply has to imported from "foreign" countries. Even if Salonika is a majority Jewish city-state, that will end in WWII. In any case, well before then, it will simply not be large enough to accept a significant number of immigrants, Sephardic or Ashkenazic.
 

Brunaburh

Gone Fishin'
I personally think that if anywhere was going to be ethnically cleansed to provide a Jewish homeland after WWII, it would be fairer that it was somewhere Germans lived, rather than Arabs. Perhaps Danzig and environs as well as Konigsberg?
 

Deleted member 97083

If the Russian Pale of Settlement included only Belarus, it would probably be Jewish majority. Then there could be a Jewish state in Belarus.
 
The problem is that just having a lot of Jews doesn't make a place a Jewish state. Utah has always had plenty of non-Mormons after all. And even if you had a majority Jewish state in the United States, there would be plenty of Gentiles and Judaism wouldn't be given any sort of privileged status.

If the 25 December is an official federal holiday, they couldn't stop a state who wanted to make official holidays of an other religion. And teaching hebrew in schools isn't religious in nature and would be legal too.


I personally think that if anywhere was going to be ethnically cleansed to provide a Jewish homeland after WWII, it would be fairer that it was somewhere Germans lived, rather than Arabs. Perhaps Danzig and environs as well as Konigsberg?

A jewish state in the middle of the Warsaw Pact, bordering USSR?
 
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Tbh, I'd be all for going for the Khazaria approach. Perhaps have them take the role of Moscow - in charge of enforcing that tributes are being paid, and siphoning some off of the top, meanwhile establishing themselves in settled communities where the Chernozerms (Black Soil) lies. Essentially being put into place to re-establish their old hegemony and then adapting to the changes in warfare.

Could have a big "Russian North" which is firmly European, and a "Khazar South". It'd be an interesting variance, especially if the Khazar society is split between its "Settled" and "Nomadic" factions, with the Nomads controlling the vast territorial possibilities east of the Urals, hemming in the Russians.

You'd probably see a clear divide between a Khazar-Cherson south and the Novgorod North. (I can't see Moscow being the big dog with this division, simply because I've given the money to the Khazars, whilst Novgorod still gets trade money).

Perhaps even further, you get a stronger bond between the Russian and Scandinavian nations, or a Baltic Russian Empire.
 
Tbh, I'd be all for going for the Khazaria approach. Perhaps have them take the role of Moscow - in charge of enforcing that tributes are being paid, and siphoning some off of the top, meanwhile establishing themselves in settled communities where the Chernozerms (Black Soil) lies. Essentially being put into place to re-establish their old hegemony and then adapting to the changes in warfare.

Could have a big "Russian North" which is firmly European, and a "Khazar South". It'd be an interesting variance, especially if the Khazar society is split between its "Settled" and "Nomadic" factions, with the Nomads controlling the vast territorial possibilities east of the Urals, hemming in the Russians.

You'd probably see a clear divide between a Khazar-Cherson south and the Novgorod North. (I can't see Moscow being the big dog with this division, simply because I've given the money to the Khazars, whilst Novgorod still gets trade money).

Perhaps even further, you get a stronger bond between the Russian and Scandinavian nations, or a Baltic Russian Empire.

That in it of itself would be interesting, especially since a Khazar South could mean a strong Jewish presence moreover in the Middle East though how this would affect things like the Ottoman Empire I am not sure. I am wondering of this means the Novgorod based Russia would still be Eastern Orthodox and how that would affect its neighbors.
 
That in it of itself would be interesting, especially since a Khazar South could mean a strong Jewish presence moreover in the Middle East though how this would affect things like the Ottoman Empire I am not sure. I am wondering of this means the Novgorod based Russia would still be Eastern Orthodox and how that would affect its neighbors.

I think any obvious institution like the Ottoman Empire is questionable. There would likely be the Seljuks, and it may impact the Sultanate of Rum, but there is no guarantee that would collapse.
 
I don't see why not. Lots of Jews were Communists in 1945.
Lots of Jews were also conservative and religious. They would not be happy under communist rule. Communist Jews were often internacionalists or assimilated with host nation, thus they would not push hard for separate Jewish state and were fine being just citizens of USSR, Poland, Romania and so on.

Perhaps if ww2 is short (something like "Blounted Sickle" scenario), European Israel is more likely?
 
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Idea of estabilishing Jewish state in Palestine predates 1900. So this is right forum to discuss alternate location of Israel.
 
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