AHC: Haiti is not a terrible place to live

What would be the best POD post-independence from France for Haiti to not end up the spectacular clusterfuck of coups, dictators, and civil wars that it has been OTL?
 

Deleted member 67076

Have their debt be cancelled/paid off early enough by France.

Don't piss off the Dominicans and have them revolt.

Curb the power of the elites and fund infrastructure on the island while introducing a stable govt similar to the American one.
 
Have it be annexed by the USA sometime in the late 1800s.

This is really misinformed : how do you think a populous country founded on the very idea of being a black republic is going to react to being annexed by a country that, even if it doesn't practice slavery anymore, segregate black people? And on the other hand how do you convince this still racist country to annex a black republic?
Annexion by the US is often seen as a panacea : you have to understand that it is immigrants that bring wealth and that Haïti is already very settled.
On the subject I think that you have to cancel the debt of independence as soon as possible but I have no idea how to achieve that : maybe with Louis-Philipe?
 
I suppose it would be ASB to hope that America is nice to it after the revolution and doesn't treat it as a mix between a pirate base and the Soviet Union?
 
In my TL, the United States annexes Santo Domingo (OTL Dominican Republic) in 1869 as a home for recently freed blacks. Although only a few thousand ever relocated, Santo Domingo eventually became a state in 1912. A more prosperous and tranquil Santo Domingo has had important side effects on neighboring Haiti. Because of greater wealth and U.S. attention due to their common border, Haiti by the 1960s has a moderately developed tourist industry, a stable democratic government, and a ready market for its agricultural produce. In short, while not highly developed the TL's Haiti has a HDI closer to OTL's Colombia and therefore not a horrible place to live.
 

Dorozhand

Banned
Jacques I is not assassinated and creates a stable state and dynasty that doesn't fracture as OTL. The country makes money selling cash crops, slowly developing a proto-socialistic economy and perhaps some modest industrialization begins. The state doesn't piss off the Dominicans, so they stay part of the empire. The country uses some of its money to begin building up a well-supplied army.

During the Napoleonic wars, Haitian forces, aided by British materiel and a few instructors that were allowed to come in, take some French islands in the Caribbean, expanding their agricultural system and wealth, as well as prestige. When the UK goes on its anti slave trade crusade in the mid 19th century, the Haitians become British allies. The Haitian Navy patrols the Caribbean for slave ships, acting effectively as British proxies in the area.
 
Last edited:
Possible PODs:

1) Eastiest is Toussaint is not murdered.

2) Next Don't split off the Dominican Republic.

3) Haiti gets a larger piece of the island than in OTL if the DR does split off.

4) The Dominican Republic gets annexed by the US.


5) Haiti allies with the US in the Spanish American war and gets spoils from the War.

6) The CSA is victorious in 1964 but then fails to put down a massive slave revolt in the aftermath of the ACW. The Slave revolt is caused by the CSA trying to re-enslave all escaped slaves and kill all who supported the Union. Britain refuses to aid end attempt to re-enslave the blacks and the CSA has too many debts to France.

The Blacks take control over Louisiana as Butler pulls Union troops out and run it with help of educated Freemen from the US and the Black regimens from the Union defect to the New Louisiana republic. Jefferson Davis and other promenint Confederates are assassinated by black spies who use to work for the Union. This leads to massacres of slaves in revenge and causes more slaves to escape to the NLR.

Haitians seeing their chance to not be alone in the world send aid to the new Black Republic in the form of experienced officers, politicians, engineers, and arms when they can and even a few ships. This leads the Confederates to wanting to invade Haiti but that encourages the USA to go foward with annexing the Dominican Republic which was already being protected by Union ships* to keep the Spanish away. The Confederates enraged can't convince the Union to let them land troops on the island and try for a blockade but runners still make it through.

The Blacks in the Union buys arms in the North then sells arms to Haiti and the NLR and often go to join the NLR. The economy of the CSA can no longer sustain war against the New Louisiana Republic and sues for peace. The two Black republics remain allies for years and the separation of Texas from the CSA leads it to become independent again. New Louisiana becomes a major trading partner with the Union, Haiti, and even Liberia and the wealth of Haiti spills over to US Dominican Republic.

Wow i should really do a TL.:p

*Actually happened in OTL.
 
Post-independence is tricky, because Haiti gained independence at a time when no Western country wanted to see a black republic succeed, and after the death of its most capable leader (Toussaint) as well. Haiti also had the fundamental problem of a population of over 500,000 inheriting a societal infrastructure that had been built to accommodate 60,000 free people.

I think the POD would have to be during the Haitian Revolution, in which Haiti remains under some degree of French control. If it had remained a French colony long enough for France to develop its governmental, economic and educational institutions to accommodate the mass of freed slaves, it would probably resemble the rest of the Caribbean today. Maybe have no yellow fever epidemic in 1802, thus allowing Napoleon's forces to maintain control?
 
Like in my TL, Napoleon says screw it to the landowners and backs T'oussaint.
That would be a good way.
Post-independence is tricky, because Haiti gained independence at a time when no Western country wanted to see a black republic succeed, and after the death of its most capable leader (Toussaint) as well. Haiti also had the fundamental problem of a population of over 500,000 inheriting a societal infrastructure that had been built to accommodate 60,000 free people.

I think the POD would have to be during the Haitian Revolution, in which Haiti remains under some degree of French control. If it had remained a French colony long enough for France to develop its governmental, economic and educational institutions to accommodate the mass of freed slaves, it would probably resemble the rest of the Caribbean today. Maybe have no yellow fever epidemic in 1802, thus allowing Napoleon's forces to maintain control?

Better yet, have napoleon not be so stupid as to attempt to reinstate slavery.

Alternatively, when the French fleet appears off port au prince in 1825, have a British fleet appear, too, and say 'look, you freed the slaves in 1798, and NOW you want payment? Wtf?'. I mean, really!
 
That would be a good way.


Better yet, have napoleon not be so stupid as to attempt to reinstate slavery.

But even if he doesn't, the yellow-fever epidemic was so bad that France's control over Saint-Domingue was going to be extremely tenuous. Leclerc lost far more of his men to that disease than to fighting, and he died of it himself. Dessalines never trusted the French in any event and assumed all along they were planning on reinstating slavery. A promise not to reinstate slavery wouldn't pacify him. Toussaint was the only guy who could keep Dessalines under control. Taking him prisoner was a huge mistake.

To have France hold onto Saint-Domingue, you have to have either the epidemic not strike or Toussaint not captured.
 
Last edited:
I read once that Frederick Douglass was going to take a trip there in 1861 to consider the possibility of relocating freed slaves but was stopped due to the outbreak of the war. Given the way the war went, it was decided that it would be better for African Americans to try to make a real home for themselves in America rather than settle somewhere else.

If for some reason he and other African Americans decided to move en masse to Haiti, they might have provided an infusion of a much healthier political culture and probably financial support from the American Colonization Society and other like-minded institutions.

It's still a long shot, but it's probably the best plausible choice. It would probably require something on the scale of a Confederate victory though for Douglass and other African Americans to consider living in America so impossible that they had to relocate to a black country.
 
The Dominican Republic was once in the same straits as Haiti. The primary difference between the two today is that the Dominicans got dictators like Trujillo, while Haiti got the Duvaliers.

I don't know if the OP considers the Dominican Republic a terrible place to live, or not, but by replacing the Duvaliers it's fairly reasonable that Haiti can increase their standard of living as the Dominicans did.
 
I read once that Frederick Douglass was going to take a trip there in 1861 to consider the possibility of relocating freed slaves but was stopped due to the outbreak of the war. Given the way the war went, it was decided that it would be better for African Americans to try to make a real home for themselves in America rather than settle somewhere else.

If for some reason he and other African Americans decided to move en masse to Haiti, they might have provided an infusion of a much healthier political culture and probably financial support from the American Colonization Society and other like-minded institutions.

It's still a long shot, but it's probably the best plausible choice. It would probably require something on the scale of a Confederate victory though for Douglass and other African Americans to consider living in America so impossible that they had to relocate to a black country.

There were Caribbean colonization attempts OTL. They tended to fare somewhat poorly. But even if you succeed, you get the same problem as Liberia: the "colonists" have no real connection to the people they're settling among and they don't necessarily have the skills to adapt readily to the new conditions. There's a reason Liberia is not exactly a shining paradise, even by modern African standards.

I suspect avoiding Napoleon's attempt to reconquer the place is your best bet. If he was willing to look the other way as Toussaint basically built his own personal state, Haiti would have a better chance of developing a half-way decent political structure. Meanwhile, Napoleon would avoid his own losses and allow the Peace of Amiens to last somewhat longer
 
Meanwhile, Napoleon would avoid his own losses and allow the Peace of Amiens to last somewhat longer

I've heard this before - that Napoleon's sending troops to Haiti was perceived by the British as a belligerent action. But why? Did the Peace of Amiens forbid him from sending troops to French colonies?
 
This is really misinformed : how do you think a populous country founded on the very idea of being a black republic is going to react to being annexed by a country that, even if it doesn't practice slavery anymore, segregate black people? And on the other hand how do you convince this still racist country to annex a black republic?

You need a third hand here: there would be those who would see the island, already with a dominate black population, as the perfect place for freedmen to move to.
 
Slow the rate of population growth, somehow. Part of the problem today is that overpopulation has led to over-cultivation and exhausted the soil (not to mention destroyed the environment) in large parts of the country.
 
You need a third hand here: there would be those who would see the island, already with a dominate black population, as the perfect place for freedmen to move to.

Sure, but that doesn't require annexation, nor is it likely to lead to a vast improvement in living conditions. Once again, Liberia is a good comparison here. Just because freedmen from the US are dumped there doesn't mean Haiti becomes a nice place to live. More likely, it just adds more confusion to the racial strife (as "colonists" become another group to get involved in the struggles with "coloreds" and "blacks").
 
Ah. I had misremembered the order of events. I had thought Napoleon/Leclec's invasion of the island was after the reimposition of slavery, and it wasnt. I stand corrected.

Also the original freeing of slaves was earlier than i remembered, being apparently 1793.
 
Top