AHC: Grow the Swedish Empire

Have the Swedish Empire the largest it could possibly be, within a realistic perspective. I think that the Swedes have better planning in the Northern War and win at a Poltava-ese battle. They march on St. Petersburg and demoralize the Russians into a humiliating peace. What are your thoughts?
 
Have the Swedish Empire the largest it could possibly be, within a realistic perspective. I think that the Swedes have better planning in the Northern War and win at a Poltava-ese battle. They march on St. Petersburg and demoralize the Russians into a humiliating peace. What are your thoughts?
Your examples are from a rather late period. If Sweden instead gains a little more in the thirty years war (Mecklenburg, Hinterpommern). Succeeds with the Kedainia union with Lithuania in the 1650s but still fails temporarily in holding Poland, which leads to the Danish war, where Sweden instead of direct conquests might have coerced the Danes to join the Swedish realm in full but still have inner independence.

The 1670s war ends with the Swedish takeover of most of Brandenburg.

Now we have abolished butterflies and somehow get to Charles XII and the Great Northern War. Swedish forces conquer Poland and Saxony which are also joined with the Swedish crown. Russia will have to cede the Ukraine and the old Novgorod territories.

Since Swedish administration was comparably efficient at the time, this greater Sweden would have a reasonable chance for the future, and be an equal to France, Britain and Austria among the European great powers.
 
the primary issue for Sweden (and Denmark in the preceding period) was relatively low native population due to suboptimal argicultural areas (to cold/poor for Sweden, to little for Denmark).

Giving them much more land to support a greater population would very easily make the nation a minority in their own country
 

LordKalvert

Banned
Perhaps if Charles stops after he occupies Poland and decides that Russia isn't worth invading and just cleans Peter the Great out of Livonia, you could have Sweden remain the dominant power in the Baltic for a very long time
 
the primary issue for Sweden (and Denmark in the preceding period) was relatively low native population due to suboptimal agricultural areas (to cold/poor for Sweden, to little for Denmark).

Giving them much more land to support a greater population would very easily make the nation a minority in their own country

This. The major reason that Sweden managed to acquire as much power as they did was largely due to them being well organized while their neighbors were stumbling around. In most possible scenarios Sweden looses their empire when their larger neighbors get their business together. As Sian said, there are just too few Swedes and if they take much land they'll quickly become a minority within their own empire.

In my opinion the best bet to keep Sweden as a major power is to prevent the rift between the Swedish and Polish Vasa houses from being so divisive. Russia is both nations' greatest threat and a Sweden and Poland-Lithuania that are reasonably friendly toward each other will go a long way toward stunting the growth of Russia. Sweden would remain the dominant power in the Baltic if they can keep Russia out.
 
Does a unified Scandinavia under Swedish rule work? Because that could easily happen if Sweden and Denmark needed to balance against a greater power (maybe a stronger Habsburg empire, or a stronger Poland), and formed a marriage alliance or something. My TL has that happen, but the dominant element in the union is Denmark and not Sweden.
 
I'm wondering about a *Sweden that incorporates Denmark & Norway (all of the Peninsula), the Baltic States, & Mecklenberg. (Maybe Prussia, too?) Credible?
 
Denmark and Norway is very easy, and could have gone that way in the 19c, what with all the pan-___ movements.

The Baltic states... that requires screwing Russia. It's entirely possible, but you should keep track of who won which war in the Cabinet Wars era and change things as appropriate.

Mecklenburg and Prussia are the hardest, because once the 19c came along they'd want to join Germany. Early Modern Scandinavia did not have the population base to settle or Scandinavianize them; Sweden couldn't even Germanize Finland by the time it had to cede it to Russia.
 
Swedes does not have to be the majority population. We are not in the democratic age here. Besides, Sweden did have the ability to make people feel Swedish, so Estonians and Latvians and Scanians and Pomeranians OTL did acquire a sense of Swedish identity that outlasted Swedish rule for generations in lost areas.

This might be harder in non-Lutheran areas, but failure is not a given.
 
Swedes does not have to be the majority population. We are not in the democratic age here.

Well obivously. But it certainly did help, if nothing else then due to fewer revolts by the local nobility (even if those would strictly be high commoners such as merchants), hedging their bets on a local ruler.

the more diverse an ethencity, the more likely would revolts be, wanting a local as their top liege, whether through pretender claims or independence movements.

at least in the case of Scania OTL, the danish population was heavily oppressed (except for parts of the nobility that was just as heavily bribed) and liberally seeded with Swedish peasents
 
at least in the case of Scania OTL, the danish population was heavily oppressed (except for parts of the nobility that was just as heavily bribed) and liberally seeded with Swedish peasents
I have only seen partial and untrustworthy descriptions of this, but even if so, the Swedish policy succeeded and Scania is still Swedish, which proves the point here. In 1709 when the Danish invaded again, there was no Scanian uprising in support of the Danes, and there had been rather little of such in the 1670s.
 
[...]and there had been rather little of such in the 1670s.

Sure you're thinking of the right war? ... Denmark managed relatively easily to reconquer all of Scania, with support from large parts of the peasants, both in Scania, Bohuslän and Jämtland, with only a heavily fortified Malmø and Bohus Fortress left in swedish control, otherwise forcing the Swedish to retreat all the way to Sweden proper. But was beaten back by superior Swedish tactics, bad desicions by Christian V, and lacking discipline at critical moments in the heavily mercenaried army.
 

Rubicon

Banned
at least in the case of Scania OTL, the danish population was heavily oppressed (except for parts of the nobility that was just as heavily bribed) and liberally seeded with Swedish peasents
On the contrary, the Scanian peasants received greater freedoms under Swedish rule then they had under Danish rule.

The "Snapphane" movement that appeared both during the Second Northern war and during the Scanian war more or less dissapeared by actions of the Danish king and army. Due to the success of the Swedish army during the Scanian War the Scanian peasants were forced to declere alliegance to the Swedish crown. The Danish king then instructed his forces to kill the Swedish loyalists, which then turned the Scanian population against the Danish.
When the Danes then invaded in 1709 there were no uprising against the Swedish king, the Scanian populationen remembered what the Danish army had done a generation earlier.

The Scanian peasantry turned willingly to Swedish rule by actions of the Danish crown and the greater freedoms (but heavier burdens) granted by Swedish rule.
 
Top